reaching my limits…

That’s a great idea….something of your’s to hold onto when he goes to bed.

Brenda,

Thanks for hte kind words. It’s somehow nice to know I’m not the only one sleeping in a different room from my husband, etc. etc. Things have improved tremendously even if it’s just that going to bed takes less time and isn’t so much a struggle….but we’re still up a lot at night! Oh well. Dh and I were talking and this just might take a month or longer to really see the kind of results we are hoping for….

Christine: Thanks again for the encouragement. It makes me feel good, like getting a little gold star or something, to hear someone say I’m doing the right thing and doing well. Sometimes you get so focused on not having reached your goals (of sleeping soundly for 10-12 hours which may just be a fantasy for us at htis point!) that you feel down even when you are having good results.

Lori,

No problem about getting back. I’m writing this so you can see how it’s going for us…and it’s no picnic I can tell you. He had that one great night with the 8 hour stretch and that’s been it. Going to bed is taking FAR LESS TIME than before – which is a huge improvement (when we also had the 2 hour reading/singing/story-telling sessions that would leave me asleep before him half the time). Nap-times are slowly improving, today he was asleep in about ten minutes, but I held his hand. DIdn’t talk, sing or engage him, but held his hand. He has stopped saying on the way to bed, “Mommy stay in my bed” nad is now instead saying “mommy stay in my room” which I find very interesting. Lanugage tells us so much! So, he’s starting to expect and hope I’ll stay there on the edge of the bed instead of demanding me to get into bed with him. I guess you have to be happy with teh small stuff.

HOWEVER, this philosophy of “teach him to fall asleep and theoretically the night wakings should become less and less” is so far very theoretical!! We had one night of an 8 hour stretch. It was a total fluke. Since then we’ve had regular wakings around the 11:30 – 12 am time, I go in and sit on teh edge of hte bed so he can go back to sleep. One night he was up additionally at 2:30 and then at 6:30, several other nights it was the midnight one and then one around 4 or 4:30 am. Last night it was 4:15, I went in, he fell back asleep, I went back to my bed, then he woke AGAIN only 15 minutes later and I went back in and he went back to sleep until about 8:30 am. Truthfully, I have been MORE TIRED doing this than I was before, because before I was in bed with him and did whatever and just fell back asleep very quickly. Now I’m up and down and trying not to lay down on his bed with him, even in the middle of the night. I was laying last night on my side with my legs over the edge, and my feet on the floor trying not to fall asleep at 4:15 am today. The first several nights he had the screaming fits and we were up at least 30 minutes each time the first night nad up for 15 mniutes the second and third nights. I am not leaving him to scream at night, but am using the same tactics to get him to sleep as I do at bed-time. I’m not ready yet to elave him to scream in the middle of hte night. And I am also leery now of the “I’ll pee on the bed if you don’t get in here” routine. so, I am quite possibly prolonging my own misery with this, but I can’t deal with the peeing on the bed and trashing the room every time for weeks on end. I have been a blur each day and much more emotional than usual becuase I’m just SO TIRED.

BUT, today he went to sleep at naptime in about 10 minutes and I used to battle for up to an hour or hour an half of reading nad whatever, and still sometimes he didn’t sleep. I got so excited after the 8 hour night, and now I’m coming back down to earth and realizing that this is really a true commitment and it might take a while, but I’m trying to do this somewhat gently or more gentler when we first started. I can tell you that I think my day-time discipline which is consistant and involves consequences/empathy/responsibliity on his/my part– has really helped with the nighttime stuff. At least he knows that I mean what I say and I”ll back up my words with actions (ie. time outs or taking away priviledges or whatver, but he sees me follow through) So when I said I would stay and hold his hand if he laid down on the bed and sat still because it was resting time, eventually he did it.

Our neighbor loaned me a book called “Parents, Kids and Power Struggles” which has been really interesting to read during all this. One thing that’s really helped is telling him very sincerelyt hat I know this must be so hard and he must be frustrated or even mad at me, and I know its hard to be brave and do things differently, etc. etc. ….the times he seems to be really starting to rev up, I’ve tried the tiny emphathy pep talk and it has seemed to actually help quite a bit.

Well, I’ll write more when there’s another development. so far in a nutshell, going to sleep times are easier, but he’s still waking up as much as he used to and I’m more tired trying to keep this system going in the middle of the night. I’m hoping it’ll be worth the returns that we will hopefully start to see soon!!!!

Lori,

Just wondering if you’ve ever noticed any difference between timing of dinner and night wakings? I’m just now starting to do my detective-type hyperactive thinking about his wakings. Is it the timing of meds, dinner, dinner too early, dinner too late, etc. etc. It drives me and especially dh literally crazy when I start doing this, but I just can’t help it. I haven’t tried the pepcid complete yet, last time we tried cutting his zegerid dosage it was disasterous and teh ped gi and I both agreed it wasn’t worth trying again for a long time. Do you think I should try pepcid during the night? That way I could give the zegerid in the evenings still and it wouldn’t affect it’s potency….Just curious as to what you think.

Bed times are still SO MUCH easier and nap times are following that same lead. I’ve suggested that he can have a shirt of mine to hold instead of holding my hand and I’m now sitting on the floor instead of on the bed and he was able to go to sleep two days in a row without struggling doing it this way. Gradually I can see that this is getting better. But still things are not great at night. Last night it was 12:30, 2:30, 4:15 and up for the day at 7:45.

“Talk” to you soon!

Lori: Thanks for the advice and the turtle link (that turtle is WAY COOL!) I don’t want to limit his zegerid– we’ve been there and done that with horrible results. So I am not in favor of replacing his nighttime dose with pepcid–I think you suggested not doing that either– but could give the pepcid at one of his wakings? Or possibly do what you suggested with the midafternoon dose of zegerid and then pepcid at night. I’m so wary of making this kind of change, because I tried it so many different ways before and there are just so many variables that it’s nearly impossible to tell what’s affecting what. I think my dh was about to go nuts when for months on end I would say, “I know what must be going on….maybe it’s the [fill in the blank]”– granted it helped me to work out my thoughts to think out loud this way but I went round and round for so long. Anyways, thanks for the ideas. It’s just so hard to know what to do nad what’s right…as you already know from your situation.

Christine: You know, I do think sometimes he’s scared. He basically slept WITH me, in the same bed, all night every night from age 7 months until age 24 months and then it’s been spotty since last Sept when he turned two, but I’d say I was in there at least 60% of the time. I think he’s used to mama physically there– like within arms reach– and it’s kind of freaking him out that now I’m not. I have been very disciplined not to fall asleep in his bed since beginning this. I slept one night after an hour and half cry session sitting up in his bed, but that’s been it. I’m hoping this might get better once I’ve worked my way out of the room….although at this rate it’ll be weeks before then!

Thanks for the thoughts and advice!

–anne

Lori:

The latest is that I’m scared to say this but slowly but surely, I can tell nighttime differences. Last week it began with two nights in a row where he dropped the 12:30ish waking. Prior to then, he was always awake sometime between 11:30 and 12:30 EVERY single night. So, suddenly we had two nights where he wasn’t up until 2 or 2:30. THEN, we had a night when he slept TEN HOURS straight. I woke up at 5 am, hit dh saying, “What time is it?” he told me 5 am, and my first thought was so happy, and then I thought, I hope no one has abducted Lucas or that he hasn’t died in his bed!!! So I snuck into his room and sure enough he was there asleep. So the next night wasn’t the same, but again, he didn’t wake until 2 am or so, and then it was 4 or 4:30 again that night. Then the next night was last night and he slept from 8 pm (no nap so he went down early for us) and slept until 5 am. This was NINE HOURS. So I’m scared to think this is working, but I can see some differences. It’s now been two and a half weeks.

Of course in teh last two days, he has been suddenly sucking on his fingers (he never puts his hands in his mouth), has had literal liquid bms, and been burping a lot and acid breath and a lot of other symptoms he used to have when teething. He still has all the two year old molars to come in, so OF COURSE, it seems to be happening now! His appetite has been nearly zero, unless it’s smoothies or soft foods and today he fell asleep at naptime with a finger in his mouth. So I’m not sure what effect this will have on the sleep, but so far, things do seem better than last week.

I hope this gives you hope….it’s WAY better than the first several days doing this, I can tell you!! Also, I have my chair about four feet from the bed and 2-3 feet from the door at this point. So, I’m slowly moving out of hte room at nighttime and naptime. the other thing I noticed is that he’s been extremely clingly since this started, which seems normal from what people say and from what I’ve read. Suddenly things are sort of shaken up for him and it’s stressful for him, so he’s been more clingly. He’s been crying when I’ve left him at school which he almost never did before. But I’m assuming this is temporary until things settle down with the sleeping and he gets used to it and realizes that everything else is remaining the same. So, if/when you do this, remember that they might act more attached or less, or something possibly different from what they are normally, because this is shaking things up to say the least. I’ll let you know what’s up in a few more days….hopefully we’re onto a trend here!

That’s terrific, Anne. So much progress in such a short time!!

Myles is cutting his last four molars and he’s doing a lot of the same things as Lucas, not eating much, fingers in mouth all day, and he’s waking at night which he usually doesn’t. Uggg…I hate teething.

I hope the sleep training continues to go well. You’re doing a great job. I think your experience will help lots of people.