Infantreflux.org | Solids confusion again

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April 10, 2006 at 1:10 pm #5794

Anonymous
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After talking with my Pediatrician and GI, we’ve decided to attempt some solids again. Ian is still having complete water stools even after probiotics. It seems to be a chronic problem and no one can figure out why. Can’t switch off elecare because neocate and alimentum were disasters. Karen Sparrow’s info on osmolarity being high in elecare and neocate and that can cause osmotic diarrhea in infants seems to make the most sense to both me and the doctors-they say as long as he’s thriving and developing no need to worry(which of course, I still am). They are urging to try some solids because formula doesn’t seem enough. Although Ian’s still having bottle refusal, he’s eating a ton by the end of the day-it’s just erratic.

So after sweet potatos 2 weeks ago for 3 days (which he seemed to be ok with after first couple of days but loose stools went complete water so we quit), 2 days of rice (explosive bm’s), now 1 week later (happy baby), we are trying carrots. First day today and big, explosive bm that made him hysterical and cry. Has anyone else experienced this? Perhaps gas? Should I stick it out for few days as it was only 2 tsp.’s. Made his stool a little loose (better than water). Perhaps this is because carrots are constipating as he reacted to rice the same way? SO hard to tell?

Thanks for advice. And again, I know Ian’s only 6.5 months and I’m so not in a hurry but the poor guy is hungry plus he does boycott elecare from time to time. Would love to try soy formula (we did 4 months ago once and he vomited) but wondered if kids can grow out of soy before milk or do they correlate? I do think the texture of elecare is reason reflux gets aggravated even on high prevacid dose.

With these darn bm’s it’s so hard to tell anything! Especially since for 2.5 months he was on rice in bottles and we NEVER had explosive bm’s so why now? Doesn’t there have to be correlation? Barium Enema showed nothing.

THANK YOU.

Tracy (Ian’s Mom 9-26-05) Elecare, Prevacid

April 10, 2006 at 1:28 pm #5796

Anonymous
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I wouldn’t worry about some bottle refusal as long as he’s getting
enough total. Marisa has often been refusing her bedtime bottle – or
just drinking a couple of ounces and then refusing. But she’s drinking
her other bottles really well and eating her solids great (we are now
doing oatmeal, pears, peaches, peas and just started green beans today)
– we think it’s either teething and/or exhaustion (by end of day she’s
just shot from crawling and all) keeping her from wanting that last
bottle.

As for the solids, it sounds like they are just aggravating an already
stressed digestive system. After those viruses he had and the Alimentum
disaster maybe he just needs some time to heal and for his system to
mature? I’d probably try just a month of only Elecare and probiotics to
see if his BMs calm down and worry about solids later. Or maybe try
something non-constipating (which both carrot and sweet potato can be)
and see if that sits better?

I agree with you about the texture of Elecare causing some bottle
refusal and reflux issues – we saw the same with Neocate. I know you
had a terrible time with Alimentum but maybe you can try Nutramigen
again soon?

Hope you had a good weekend in Massachusetts!

April 10, 2006 at 1:44 pm #5797

Anonymous
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Oh, I’m not worried just cautious as last time we found him in bed with blood it was after a month of weird bms, bottle refusal, grunting, etc. Just SO afraid of reoccurance. Quite the contrary-we actually decided to try solids again because he seems so hungry and it’s not cutting it.

I don’t know that I agree with with the ‘time to heal’ thing. He was on nothing but Elecare for a month and still was having issues. I kind of don’t see his bms changing by just staying on Elecare. I think Karen’s theory makes the most sense to us. Because temperment is just fine and no other symptoms. I didn’t know sweet potatos were constipating? I thought they were the opposite-high in fiber? He didn’t have explosive bms on that just gas for 2 days then went away.

I had a great time-THANKS!!! Good luck with Dr. M today!

Tracy

April 10, 2006 at 1:57 pm #5798

Anonymous
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I’ve heard sweet potatoes can be constipating but I don’t know for sure
– we haven’t tried them yet here. If no explosive BMs on them, why not
stick with those for a bit before trying anything else? What about
banana?

Actually, we cancelled Dr. M. Marisa has been feeling good (knock wood)
and pooping well (or well for her anyway) so we didn’t see the point in
dragging her up there. We made an appointment for May 1 in case we need
it.

April 10, 2006 at 3:05 pm #5805

Anonymous
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Well we stopped sp because bm became even more watery(yes, it was possible-hard to believe) and we wanted to clear up poop issues first, hence the rice and carrots. Doctors kept saying they were constipating and that would help firm up stool if nothing more serious was going on. Boy has that backfired! Would be temped to go back to sp…perhaps I should try again…bananas aren’t on the approved list yet-they said-sp, carrot, squash, apple, peaches. Allergist did not want the rice-that was gi and ped’s idea.

We just had another explosive bm-this time with ton of mucous. Haven’t seen that for a little while. So carrots are worst reaction now. It did come out loose though and not water…

I’m glad you kept an appt. with Moon. I still think worth your while that way if anything did come up you could just call her.

Tracy

April 10, 2006 at 3:13 pm #5807

Anonymous
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Tracy, I’m sorry I have no real advice to offer…just hope things get sorted out for him soon.

April 10, 2006 at 3:25 pm #5811

Anonymous
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Well carrot, squash and apple are definitely constipating. And peaches
are quite acidic (as are apples). Marisa does well with peaches but
some reflux babies don’t. Since it seems Ian’s main issues are reflux
and digestive, and not allergy (we think), I’d think banana might
actually be a better first food – but since I’m not a doctor…

It’s a tough thing to figure out. We are only now having some success
with solids after a disastrous try at 5 months and more problems at 6
months.

Formula wise do they want to try Nutramigen anytime soon?

April 10, 2006 at 4:05 pm #5818

Anonymous
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Thanks Lori! Support is always nice

Karen-no to Nutramagin. They think it would be risky because of Alimentum scare. I would love to try soy, but I know in my heart it’s hopeful thinking and it would be crazy. Unless anyone knows of experiences with outgrowing soy ahead of milk…

Yes, it’s funny that everything’s bothering him. For example, this never happened on rice before-these explosive bm’s. Just reflux issues with it. Again, I worry elecare was so easy on system that it’s going to be hard to change to anything. I have to admit-I’m VERY tempted to try banana!!! We go to the feeding hospital in NJ (UGH) on Wednesday but they have a very well known GI team there that they work with and am praying they have some ideas!

Tracy

April 10, 2006 at 4:54 pm #5826

Anonymous
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I just tried peas with my little guy….he loved them and did fine for 3 days..third day he got gassy, so I’m laying off for a few more days..gave them to him right after he got his vaccinations so I think the combo wasn’t good for his tummy. my ped said to start with veggies..peas..green beans etc….

April 10, 2006 at 5:13 pm #5827

Anonymous
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Where in NJ is the feeding hospital? Good luck and keep us posted – I guess hold off until you see what they say?

I’d think soy would be as bad if not worse… Seems his system just isn’t ready for these things yet?

April 10, 2006 at 6:00 pm #5831

Anonymous
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Feeding clinic is at St. Josephs Children’s Hospital in NJ. They apparantly are famous for working with kids with allergies and reflux. I’ve found them on a couple of reflux sites even before Dr. M recommended them. Can’t hurt right?

Spoke with GI again and she thinks Ian may really have a sucrose deficiency and that an enzyme may be needed to correct the problem. Because it seems sweet foods are a real problem-rice, carrot and alimentum has sucralose. She’s going to really look at Elecare and research tonight to see if there’s anything in there related. Also, she brought up that Ian could have a Cell mediated allergy (not really sure what that is or what’s involved). Said scratch tests won’t show those and it’s where the cell is affected in the intestinal tract.

This is SO confusing. She also said to try Sweet Potato again after a break but I’m not crazy about that because it did make poop even more liquidy.

I’m soooo confused!!

Tracy

April 10, 2006 at 6:25 pm #5832

Anonymous
Inactive

Hi Tracy

Solid food always makes Tyler’s bm’s so much more normal so they might help Ian once you build up to a large amount. The only thing I would be careful with is the amount that you give him. Our dietician told us to start off with a pea size amount and double it in size each day for 7 days. We would be giving 2tsp on day 4. Maybe going a bit slower would help him adjust. That is interesting about the sucrose deficiency, it would be good if it is an easy fix. Good luck with solids, it really is frustrating!

April 10, 2006 at 6:29 pm #5834

Anonymous
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That’s an interesting theory (re sucrose deficiency). What enzyme would
correct that? Can you try a non-sweet food in the meantime – maybe
something like green beans? Or squash? Can they test for the sucrose
deficiency?

Never heard about the cell mediated allergy issue – let me know if you find out more about that.

St. Joseph’s is in Paterson, right? I grew up about 20 minutes from there in Northern NJ.

April 10, 2006 at 9:39 pm #5851

Anonymous
Inactive

Just one other thing. I think the cell mediated allergy is what Tyler has. It means that it is an allergic reaction called non IGE that affects either the gut (cramps, diarrhea, reflux etc) or skin (excema). This sort of reaction wont show up on any skin testing, it is only diagnosed through food challenges and elimination. The good thing is that it is usually grown out of before the age of 2 and is not a lifelong allergy.

When you have a problem with a food you can retry in 4-6 weeks. We just tried sweetcorn again and Tyler got excema from it which he didnt get the first time around – strange huh?

April 10, 2006 at 10:27 pm #5856

Anonymous
Inactive

Tracy, I know you must be “torn” about what to do- solids vs. no solids with Ian right now. I’m just casting my vote for waiting a month (or more).

With Claire, she was almost 10 months old before starting solids and, in retrospect, I’m really glad we waited. When she was around 7 months, I started feeling pressure to feed her- other babies her age were eating solids, she was definitely “interested” in food and I was concerned about her getting enough calories. Behaviorly, she was “ready”. Indisputably though, her GI tract was not ready (and I think perhaps this sounds like the case with Ian). Her ped GI told me, “not feeding her may be tough on you, but it really isn’t tough on her.”

He said that until about 100-150 years ago (which may or may not be exactly historically accurate, but the guy is a doc NOT a sociologist) most babies nursed/drank bottles exclusively until well into the second year of life, until they were ready to eat solids (regular food, not baby food) independently. Feeding babies “early” is a fairly recent cultural phenomenon… there is a lot of societal pressure at play (not to mention a huge industry with heavy marketing- the advertising budget of Gerber is probably bigger than the GDP of some small countries ! ).

If you are concerned about calories and hunger, increasing the caloric density of his Elecare (without increasing the volume) is an option. At around 7 months, Claire moved from 20 cal/oz to 24 cal/oz. It worked out well because we were never successful at getting more than about 26 oz/day into her.

My observation on the board is that Moms very frequently post about solid feeding problems (reactions/intolerances/aversions) with their babies and lots have had many false starts and incredible difficulty sorting out the mysteries of food reactions. Many have said (in retrospect) that they wish they would have held off longer. I don’t think I have ever read a post that said, “we delayed starting solids and regretted it.”

Anyhow, sorry for the philosophical rambling. With the best of intentions, I just think we tend to over analyze these things (I am certainly guilty of this) trying to “do the right thing” for our kids. Go with your gut on this one Tracy- soon enough we’ll be exchanging our present concerns with ones likes whether or not they need braces on their teeth, their friend who is a “bad influence”, and all the time they spend on their computer!
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