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August 23, 2006 at 7:22 am #12034
Anonymous
InactiveFor those of you who bfed into toddlerhood….
We are “proactively weaning” meaning, we are having daddy put Lucas to bed on the nights he doesn’t work (his schedule has his home at 11 pm several nights a week) and I am trying to sometimes put him to sleep without nursing….We’re doing this because I was happy to nurse for two years, even with the strict diet, but I’m getting to my limit. Unfortunately for me, the “don’t offer, don’t refuse” won’t work unless I want to nurse him a lot longer, which I don’t really want to do. Plus, I just want to eat tomatoes and bread again….
So, putting him down without nursing is a real horrible challenge since he has all these associations with nursing– not just the “normal baby” ones, but all the reflux– nursing fixed my pain– associations. Anyway, I had horrible nursing issues with plugged ducts, and I’m scared of what will happen as we nurse less and less. I’m still nursing some days once (in the night if I’m too tired to deal with a struggle and he’s waking a lot).
I know i’m close to the end, with only once a day, but I’m very afraid to go cold turkey, and don’t really want to. The kicker is that he seems to be sleeping better without nursing….this is such a strange discovery and could possibly be just the lull between teething, but I’m not sure. If I thought I could sleep MORE and he would sleep MORE if I never nursed again, I would be so tempted, but I’m not sure what to expect for myself and breast pain, etc. Help! This is yet another of the mothering mysteries that nearly no one talks about so I have no clue!!! All I know is that you can use cabbage for pain and that it’s supposed to decrease your milk supply. I used it regularly when he was an infant and it never decreased my milk supply!
Any thoughts?
August 23, 2006 at 8:29 am #12045Anonymous
InactiveI’ve heard of cabbage leaves helping with engorgement but never to decrease milk supply.
August 23, 2006 at 8:40 am #12047hellbennt
Keymasterhi anne,
my sister was quite the milk producer & had all kinds of plugged duct issues and 3 bouts of mastitis
– I recall she had to pump just a little bit as she was weaning- it’s a hard balance- you have to pump just enough to relieve the pressure but not so much as to signal your body to produce more milk…I’ll have to check w/ her as to what to do- I just remember that she continued to have letdowns well past the time Ruby was weaned
…I know that antihistimines dry you up a bit…they’re safe (think of all the benedryl lucas has had, lol
!) & you can take them at night or first thing in the a.m. for a bit (don’t know for how many days in a row, though…)I hear you about the tomatoes! You should have seen me eat my first piece of pizza after a year! and you’ve gone a year past that!!!
I’m not sure if you post over at the yahoo board- maybe some there have ideas?
as for the cabbage, it’s for engorgement…
HTH,
~laura
August 23, 2006 at 12:16 pm #12076Anonymous
InactiveI was producing 50 ounces of milk a day when I decided to quit pumping. (Myles didn’t nurse, so I pumped and fed). It was hard and it hurt for a little while, but compared to labor and delivery it was a breeze.
I did it gradually; pumped when I was really uncomfortable, but only enough to relieve the pain. Took hot showers when I could to relieve the pain. Motrin helped alot. Weird, but if you increase your sodium it may help to decrease your milk supply. I had to avoid things like Saltines and other salty foods while nursing (well, pumping) because my supply dropped. So, when I was ready to quit I ate all the salty foods I missed.

Good luck and great job nursing him so long. He’s a lucky little boy!!!
I wish I could have given my kids breast milk that long.August 23, 2006 at 5:36 pm #12104Anonymous
InactiveThanks guys. After all we’ve been through, I’m such a sissy for being afraid of the rock hard painful breasts….but I really am!!! I think my chronic plugged milk ducts have scarred me for life. For the longest time I just thought I would keep nursing as long as possible just to avoid having to run into another plugged duct!! My husband has suggested that I might make a lot of $$$ as a wet nurse with hypoallergenic milk…..haha
Christine I can’t believe you pumped that long….way to go for you!!! It took Lucas 10 weeks and a lot of weight loss to “learn” to latch on, and only with the help of an expert lactation consultant was I not also pumping for a year as well.
Thanks Laura, I forgot about Kellymom, and I’ve got it bookmarked, duh! Also, crazy about being a superproducer and the plugged ducts. They were the worst thing in the world nad only removing dairy from my diet got them to go away. It was actually that move that clued me into Lucas doing better without dairy and soy….everything happens for a reason, right?
August 23, 2006 at 6:04 pm #12110Anonymous
InactiveI just weaned my 2.5 year old about 2 months ago. We were down to just a couple of nursings a day. In Apr. my dh and I went out of town for 3 days to look for a house in Orlando (we just moved here). At the end of the second day I was in a lot of pain so I assumed weaning would be tough. Funny thing is I have hardly had any pain at all. I don’t have your history though. I was told by a lactation consultant that after you’ve nursed an older child for so long your body produces most milk during the actual nursing. I still can squeeze milk out now. Not sure when that will end, anyone now? I can just say that since we were down to a couple a day and then stopped I haven’t been uncomfortable at all. Good luck.
August 24, 2006 at 1:32 pm #12189Anonymous
InactiveEmmas_mom wrote: I just weaned my 2.5 year old about 2 months ago. We were down to just a couple of nursings a day. In Apr. my dh and I went out of town for 3 days to look for a house in Orlando (we just moved here). At the end of the second day I was in a lot of pain so I assumed weaning would be tough. Funny thing is I have hardly had any pain at all. I don’t have your history though. I was told by a lactation consultant that after you’ve nursed an older child for so long your body produces most milk during the actual nursing. I still can squeeze milk out now. Not sure when that will end, anyone now? I can just say that since we were down to a couple a day and then stopped I haven’t been uncomfortable at all. Good luck.
With my first dd I was able to squeeze milk out for over 2 years after I stopped nursing her. It was weird. But the dr. told me it was normal.
August 24, 2006 at 1:54 pm #12194Anonymous
InactiveHi Anne,
If you do have frozen breast milk, or you do continue to pump and wean, you can look into donating. When my supply dwindled with Dylan, I didn’t realized there were milk banks I could get breast milk from. When my supply dwindled with Carter, I looked into it.
It is very expensive to purchase, but insurance will cover it if you have a preemie enough child that you can argue will benefit from breastmilk rather than formula. I’d bet there would be an argument for these reflux babies as well.
Anyway, I heard about milk banks because a few years back in a hospital in CT a mother died and her 23 week preemie survived the delivery. The father said he wanted them to find breastmilk for the baby, and nobody was going to argue with him after what he had been through. His daughter did fine and left the NICU, but I am sure the breastmilk helped her tons!
Anyway, just thought I would share the story and the avenue if there are you moms who have the frozen BM or have to pump to wean.
Ann Marie
August 24, 2006 at 3:35 pm #12204Anonymous
InactiveI was going to donate mine. I had 40 6-oz bags in the freezer when Hailey went on feeding strike and the thought of wasting it killed me. I did manage to use it all up in the end so I never went down that route. At first I didn’t really like the idea, it kind of felt personal to me, like sperm donation (yes, I can be an idiot sometimes), but then I talked to someone and she said if anything, she’d put it more along the lines of blood donation. I liked that idea, but as I said, in the end we used it up.
August 27, 2006 at 5:03 pm #12423Anonymous
InactiveWow, thanks for all the great info.
Kim, good to know your situation with the older toddler, I think it might make sense that it’s different from weaning a baby under one or one year old who is/was still nursing quite a bit…I’m hoping I’ll have your situation. Right now I’m going on day three with no nursing and was fine but feel much more “full” today. I have been giving in and just nursing him every two days or so (but only once) to relieve the full feeling. I’m just so darn scared of getting a plugged duct. I lent my pump out to a friend for a long-term loan (not thinking about weaning at the time) so I don’t have mine to use….maybe I should just hand express if it gets too bad? Did you do that when it got uncomfortable, or did you just live through it?
Ann Marie,
Thanks for the wonderful info. I really understand families wanting their children to have the benefits of breastmilk. At this point though, I guess I’m ready to be done…I don’t have a pumped supply in the freezer, but if I did, I would be sure to get it to someone who could use it. Especially since it would have been dairy/soy/beef/gluten free!!! Someone on here could have used it, right? haha
Thanks again everyone
August 27, 2006 at 9:36 pm #12442Anonymous
InactiveThe breastfeeding nurse at Dr. Newman’s Clinic here (not sure if you ever heard of him but he’s a famous BF doc) suggests lecithin and something else (which I can’t remember) to prevent blocked ducts. I have a friend who saw him for this problem, and I’ll ask her and report back. Glad to hear the weaning is going well.
August 27, 2006 at 10:31 pm #12445Anonymous
InactiveHere’s a copy of a document that Dr. Newman sent me about blocked ducts and mastitis. About midway through it talks about the dose of lecithin to take (I think it’s under the discussion of ultrasound).
Blocked Ducts and Mastitis
Mastitis is a bacterial infection of the breast that usually occurs in breastfeeding mothers. However, it can occur in women who are not breastfeeding or pregnant, and can occur even in small babies of either sex. Nobody knows exactly why some women get mastitis and others do not. Bacteria may gain access to the breast through a crack or sore in the nipple, but women without sore nipples also get mastitis, and most women with cracks in the nipple do not.
Mastitis needs to be differentiated from a plugged or blocked duct, because a plugged or blocked duct does not need treatment with antibiotics, whereas mastitis often, but not always, requires treatment with antibiotics. A blocked duct presents as a painful, swollen, firm mass in the breast. The skin overlying the blocked duct is often quite red, similar to what happens during mastitis, but less intense. Mastitis is usually also associated with fever and more intense pain as well. However, it is not always easy to distinguish between a mild mastitis and a severe blocked duct. Both are associated with a painful lump in the breast. Without a lump in the breast, one cannot make a diagnosis of mastitis or a blocked duct. A blocked duct can, apparently, go on to become mastitis. In France, physicians also recognize something they call lymphangite that is fever associated with skin which is hot and red, but there is no underlying painful mass. They do not believe this requires treatment with antibiotics. I have seen a few cases that fit this description in my practice, and indeed, the problem resolves without antibiotics. But then, often a full blow mastitis also resolves without antibiotics.
As with almost all breastfeeding problems, a poor latch, and thus, poor draining of the breast sets up the situation where mastitis is more likely to occur.
Blocked ducts
Blocked ducts will almost always resolve spontaneously within 24 to 48 hours after onset, even without any treatment at all. During the time the block is present, the baby may be fussy when nursing on that side, as milk flow may be slower than usual, probably due to pressure causing collapse of other ducts. Blocked ducts can be made to resolve more quickly by:
1. Continuing breastfeeding on the affected side.
2. Draining the affected area better. One way of doing this is to position the baby so his chin “points” to the area of hardness. Thus if the blocked duct is in the outside, lower area of your breast (about 4 o’clock), the football hold would be best. Another way of achieving better draining of the breast is using breast compression while the baby is feeding, getting your hand around the blocked duct and using steady pressure as the baby sucks (See handout #15, Breast Compression).
3. Applying heat to the affected area (with a heating pad or hot water bottle, but be careful not to injure your skin by using too much heat for too long a period of time).
4. Trying to rest. (Not always easy, but take the baby to bed with you.)
If the blocked duct is associated with a small blister on the end of the nipple, you can open it with a sterile needle. Flame a sewing needle or a pin, let it cool off, and puncture the blister. No need to dig around. Just pop the top or side of the blister. Sometimes you can squeeze out a little toothpaste like material from the duct and the duct will immediately unblock. Or, put the baby to the breast and he may unblock it for you. Opening the blister has the added benefit of decreasing nipple pain, even if the blocked duct does not immediately resolve. Come to the clinic if you cannot do it yourself.
If a blocked duct has not settled within 48 hours (unusual), therapeutic ultrasound often works. This can be arranged at a neighbourhood physiotherapy office or sports medicine clinic. Many ultrasound therapists are not aware of this use for ultrasound. The dose is:
2 watts/cm², continuous, for five minutes to the affected area, once daily for up to two doses.
If two treatments on two consecutive days have not worked, there is no point in continuing with ultrasound. Get the blocked duct re-evaluated at the clinic or by your own physician. Usually, however, if ultrasound is going to work, one treatment is all that is needed. Ultrasound also seems to prevent recurrent blocked ducts that always occur in the same part of the breast. Lecithin, one capsule (1200 mg) 3 or 4 times a day also seems to prevent recurrent blocked ducts, at least in some mothers.
Mastitis
Here is my approach to dealing with mastitis.
· If the mother has symptoms consistent with mastitis for more than 24 hours, she should start antibiotics. If the mother has consistent symptoms for less than 24 hours, I will prescribe an antibiotic, but suggest the mother wait before starting to take it. If, over the next 8-12 hours, her symptoms are worsening (more pain, more spreading of the redness, enlargement of the hardened area), then the mother should start the antibiotics. If, over the next 24 hours, the mother has not worsened, but not improved, she should start the antibiotics. However, if symptoms are starting to decrease, there is no need to start the antibiotics. The symptoms usually will continue to resolve and will have disappeared over the next 2 to 5 days. Fever will usually be gone within 24 hours, the pain within 24 to 48 hours, and the breast hardness within the next few days. The redness may remain for a week or longer. Once improvement begins, with or without antibiotics, it should continue. If the course of your mastitis does not follow this pattern, contact the clinic.
· Note: Amoxicillin, plain penicillin, and some other antibiotics often prescribed for mastitis are usually useless for mastitis. If you need an antibiotic, it must be effective against Staphylococcus aureus. Effective for this bacterium are: cephalexin, cloxacillin, flucloxacillin, amoxicillin-clavulinic acid, clindamycin and ciprofloxacin. The last two are effective for mothers allergic to penicillin. You can and should continue breastfeeding while taking these medications.
Remember:
· Continue breastfeeding, unless it is just too painful to do so. If you cannot, at least express your milk as best you can in the meantime. Restart breastfeeding as soon as you are up to it, the sooner the better. Continuing breastfeeding helps mastitis to resolve more quickly. There is no danger for the baby.
· Heat (hot water bottle or heating pad) applied to the affected area helps healing.
· Rest helps fight off infection.
· Fever helps fight off infection. Treat fever if it makes you feel terrible, not just because it is there.
· Medication (acetaminophen, ibuprofen, others) for pain can be very good. You will feel better and the amount that gets to the baby is insignificant. Acetaminophen is probably less useful as it does not have an anti-inflammatory effect.
Abscess: An abscess occasionally complicates mastitis. You do not have to stop breastfeeding, not even on the affected side. In the past, an abscess was almost always drained surgically. Now, more and more, repeated needle aspiration or drainage under radiographic control is done, and interferes less with breastfeeding. If you need surgery, the incision should be kept as far away as possible from the areola. Contact the clinic.
A lump which isn’t going away: If you have a lump that is not going away or getting smaller over more than a couple of weeks, you should be seen by a breastfeeding friendly physician or surgeon. You don’t have to stop breastfeeding to get a breast lump investigated (Ultrasound, mammogram, and even biopsy do not require you to stop breastfeeding even on the affected side). A breastfeeding friendly surgeon will not tell you that you must stop breastfeeding before s/he can do tests for a breast lump.
Questions? (416) 813-5757 (option 3) or drjacknewman@sympatico.ca or my book Dr. Jack Newman’s Guide to Breastfeeding (called The Ultimate Breastfeeding Book of Answers in the USA)
See the website http://www.thebirthden.com/Newman.html which contains videos showing how to latch a baby on, how to know a baby is getting milk, how to use compression, etc.
Handout #22 Blocked Ducts and Mastitis. Revised January 2005
Written by Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC. © 2005
This handout may be copied and distributed without further permission,
on the condition that it is not used in any context in which the WHO code on the marketing of breastmilk substitutes is violated
August 29, 2006 at 7:17 pm #12603Anonymous
InactiveThanks, Lori. I took this dose of lecithin for months way back when I had the chronic plugged ducts. Only the removal of dairy seemed to help mine go away after six miserable monthsce (this was ironically what clued me into stopping dairy for Lucas cause he began to improve whenI removed it from my diet to help my plugged duct issue). But yet I never got mastitis….I tell you it was truly weird. Anyway, I’m on day four of no bfeeding and things feel fine….so I think I might be in the clear for worrying about getting plugged ducts or another horrible weird thing from stopping nursing. I’m keeping my fingers crossed….
A funny side note, I would have called my very excellent lactation consultant about all of this but she is rather like the soup nazi on the famous Seinfeld episode. Great at what she does, but a little scary to talk to ….I sort of always got scolded in some fashion, it seemed. So, calling her was always my “if it gets really bad I can call her” option, but I was trying not to!
Thanks for all the kind support!
August 29, 2006 at 7:50 pm #12605Anonymous
Inactive
LOL! A “Soup Nazi” Lactation
consultant! Ha, Ha, Ha!! What would she say, “No more dairy for you?!”
I loved that Seinfeld episode. I’m from NY so I can really appreciate
the humor of it more than my friends here who don’t really appreciate
Seinfeld humor as much as I do.August 29, 2006 at 9:12 pm #12619Anonymous
InactiveGlad to hear the weaning is going well. Funny, because that’s exactly what I used to call the LC we saw!!! When I had to be polite, I would say that she was “militant” about BF.
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