Infantreflux.org | hard to burp? reflux again?

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May 27, 2006 at 12:29 am #8670

Anonymous
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Hi everyone. I feel like I should be a pro at this with no.2 but sadly, I have no idea what is going on…

#2 is 8 wks old Sat. 11 lbs now and was 8 at birth. obvious pain when laid on back or in swing or bouncy chair or car seat. Gulping gagging and swallowing air at feeds.Very little spit up. Only burps when completely relaxed and even then he does it himself because we can’t. There is no burp position that works consistently. Burping takes 3x as long as the feeding and afterward he’s hungry again so a feed can last 2 hours total.

Was bfing (overactive letdown) with same burping probs and saw allergic signs (green stools, horrible gas and hourly wakings) so we went to similac isomil with better sleeping stretches but same hard to burp problem which again, causes him to flip out when he’s laid on his back or in swing, chair or seat.

Wondering if this hard to burp thing is reflux or something else immature in his esoph or stomach? Originally I thought it was the overactive let down but he’s been on formula a week and I see little improvement except night sleep doesn’t have hourly wakings.

Use of mylanta is constipating and he spits all the zantac back up at me.(at his weight we’re giving 1.25 ml am and pm) He only wants to take 2 oz. per feed and feed again an hour later or 2 hours later-only exception is at night. Using Avent bottles which he took to fine after being exclusively bfed for 7 weeks straight.

The only other note is that my milk is drying up and I am still not sure if formula is the way to go. I nearly wanted to bfeed more than having the kids but the only way to exclude all possible allergens 100% is formula. ;-( But if it’s just reflux with gas from burps instead of food proteins then maybe nursing would be better? On the darn fence like the rest of the mommas…

Any advice or anyone with same probs would be helpful. I apologize if there’s a clear answer here-I am sleep deprived. ;-(

May 27, 2006 at 9:27 am #8673

Anonymous
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I’m sorry you are having such a difficult time with your new baby. I’ve definitely been there. My second and third babies had/have reflux and I too, was nursing, or trying to nurse, and was very confused and torn about what to do.

I would suggest that If you have any second thoughts about bottle feeding versus breast feeding, to go right back to breast feeding before you dry up, and he refuses to go back to it. You can quit any time, but once you dry up they’ll be no going back. I know Laura has lots of links about breast feeding reflux babies and I’m sure she will post them for you. If not, you can do a search and find the links.

Many babies don’t get the relief they need from Zantac (mine included) and do much better on a PPI medication like Prevacid or Zegerid. Even when Zantac does help babies quickly outgrow their dose and it stops working.

About the burping….I don’t have good answer for you, but I noticed this with my babies, too. The worse their reflux, the harder it was to burp them. I don’t understand the connection at all. The only thing that sometimes helps when my son has this problem is to lay him flat for about a minute, then pick him up and burp him. Or, to hold him upright and (I know this sounds nuts) do a few deep knee bends. Also, I started giving him Mylicon drops before each feeding and I’m pretty sure it helps him burps.

I wish I had more or better advice and I hope things improve soon.

May 27, 2006 at 9:54 am #8675

Anonymous
Inactive

Thanks for the advice Christine. First let me say I love your little boy’s name-fabulous!

The reason for not being 100% nursing isn’t reflux, it’s the food allergies we experienced with baby no.1. Even on a dairy restricted diet, baby no.2 was having so many diahrea poops a day and monster gas that he had an hourly diaper change and still developed lesions on his bottom that it took Desitin 2 days to clear up. Also these stools were green-not the color for bfing and had “clear” green water with some actual stool. I am still unsure about whether the inability to sleep was due to the burps turning into gas or whether it was due to food problems. I am not dried up yet but I am no longer leaking and producing enough milk to change pads 3x a day. I would love to nurse still but the allergy issue scares me since I nursed the last one to 10 mos and then moved him to neocate and watched him have so much damage he can only eat a handful of foods. Beyond this if there’s evidence that I could still bfeed and it not damage no. 2 I would jump at the chance. I don’t even know down the road if this isomil is going to still be tolerated and neocate requires a scope, etc.

Does anyone know how much prevacid an 11 lb 8 wk old baby would require? Anyone else doing this that young? If the meds get right, do the hard to burp days go away?

May 27, 2006 at 10:06 am #8676

hellbennt
Keymaster

hi there,

not much time, but the green &watery DEFINITELY can be from Overactive Letdown- not necessarily food intolerances/allergies- so if you want to get back to the breast, then I’d tackle OAL 1rst & then see if it’s anything in your diet…

sorry I can’t help more but links from my welcome/intro will help- the yahoobreastfeedingreflux group can really help

more later,

good luck!

~laura

May 27, 2006 at 2:02 pm #8681

Anonymous
Inactive

Hi,
For an 11 lb baby he should be on 7.5-8.75 mg 3x a day according to the marc-kids site. This would be 3.75-4 mls of mixed solution if using the powder. My son is 4 1/2 months, but adjusted age is about 9 weeks and is 11lbs 8oz and takes 4mls of zegerid 3x a day, so although chronologically older than your baby, he is the same age and this dose is working great.

May 27, 2006 at 8:32 pm #8686

Anonymous
Inactive

Hi again,

Thanks for the compliment about Myles’ name!

There is something called an elimination diet which helps breast feeding moms narrow down which foods are causing reactions in their infants. It’s not always dairy. Sometimes it’s wheat, or many other things. I’m sure it’s in Laura’s intro which I will try to post here for you.

https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=853&am p;PN=1&TPN=1

There’s lots of information here, so you may want to bookmark it and read a little here and there when you can.

I hope you find what you need to help your little guy.

May 28, 2006 at 11:38 am #8702

Anonymous
Inactive

Laura!!!!! Oh my goodness. I cannot believe that about the green watery stools. I guess he was overnursing to coat his throat and to pass gas from not being able to be burped (he holds them down) and this led to overproduction on top of OAL problems. I haven’t nursed him in a week and now there’s a little milk coming out when I squeeze but not much. It’s solid white just like dow’s milk looks. I started him again every 2 hours right after I saw your email last night….You never know when you make these decisions!!! So much pressure in my family for formula with the first one having allergies. BIG QUESTION-do I pump to reinstate my supply or do I make him pretty much stay on the breast for the next few day round the clock so they adjust to his level instead of being OAL again? Also do I need to worry about the milk in them now being sour or bad?

May 28, 2006 at 1:05 pm #8705

hellbennt
Keymaster

your milk isn’t sour or bad

um, I don’t know a whole lot about this stuff- getting baby back to the breast- but I’d say to try and get him going on his own? I don’t know about pumping…I know there are teas and you eating oatmeal is supposed to help…

http://www.kellymom.com is a great resource

& http://groups.yahoo.com/group/breastfeedingreflux is really helpful…

if you’re worried about mspi, then maybe don’t have dairy or soy for 2-3 wks, including hidden dairy- you can always add that back in later- you can drink rice milk and have rice products (pasta, etc) and potatos- eat a lot of oil (canola, flax seed, olive oil) to get ‘good’ fat in you…

HTH,

~laura

May 28, 2006 at 6:00 pm #8711

Anonymous
Inactive

I had very bad overactive letdown with my first and he never had green watery stools…he just gulped and “choked” a lot while nursing until the letdown stabilized itself.

May 28, 2006 at 8:49 pm #8713

hellbennt
Keymaster

from here: http://www.users.qwest.net/~fsdebra1/refluxoal.html

my empahsis in the purple

When a baby gets too much foremilk for his digestive system to handle (foremilk-hindmilk imbalance), the typical symptoms are fussiness, gassiness, spitting up or vomitting, and very frequent stools that are usually, but not always, green. When the breasts are producing too much milk (oversupply or hyperlactation), the letdown is often very strong (overactive letdown), and the baby will gag or choke, or even let go completely.

May 28, 2006 at 8:58 pm #8715

Anonymous
Inactive

Thank you all so much for your help….

I cannot express how upset I am about this….I think that’s exactly what was happening but it mimmics food intolerance! I had tried everything to help with AOL and didn’t see much improvement but then again it was only a couple of weeks… Some of the postings I NOW read say wait a month. ;-( I may have waited to late to go back as well because I now don’t even see anything coming out at all. We are either nursing (dry sucking) or pumping every 2 hours since Sat afternoon and I still have to give a bottle afterward because he is batting at me and starving! I wanted so much to nurse as I did with no.1! On the bright side, there’s no chance now of overactive letdown! Does anyone have any miracle suggestions about boosting supply? Or how long it will take for me to see milk come in? I read a little about Fenugreek but never have used herbs before…I saw leaking as recently as Tuesday and went to the OB for my 6 wk checkup Thurs and she said I still physically “look” like a lactating mother. Can I be too late? I could just kick myself for listening to relatives. Isn’t that the kiss of death? 😉

May 29, 2006 at 9:40 am #8722

Anonymous
Inactive

Try not to be so hard on yourself. No body tells us these things before we bring our babies home. I had trouble nursing all of my infants for different reasons. By the time I fiugured out the problem with my second she would no longer nurse. (My first never learned to latch and my third had a variety of problems which maybe could have been solved with proper technique and some professional help.

Anyway, I had to pump and feed all three of my babies. It was awful for me but well worth it. If you are still producing some milk you can probably still boost your supply by continuing to pump every two hours, and letting him nurse as much as possible. Also, try pumping for an additional 3-5 minutes after your milk flow stops. This will stimulate further milk production. Pump at least twice in the middle of the night, especially in the wee hours of the morning when milk supply is at it’s peak. Tapping into this early morning supply really helps alot. You don’t have to do all of this round the clock pumping for ever, but just until you get a good supply going again. To boost my supply I basically pumped every two hours around the clock except for a stretch of time between 10 or 11 pm until 3 or 4 am. It was horrible, but it worked and it was only temporary.

I’ve heard that Fenugreeek can help, but I never tried it. Also, some doctors will prescribe reglan to help a woman re-lactate.

Good luck. I hope you can go back to breast feeding, and I hope Grant is doing better.

May 29, 2006 at 11:20 am #8724

Anonymous
Inactive

I have two suggestions to increase your milk supply. First is ask you ob to put you on reglan. It’s a stomach med as most of us know, but for some reason or another it increases milk supplyu (works like a charm) There are special instructions though, you take one pill the first day, 2 pill’s the second day, 3 pills days 3-11 2 pills day 12 1 pill day 13. Actualy, it may go to 14 days, I don’t remember.

So that worked for me. My ob also recommended drinking a beer a day. He said you don’t have to worry about pumping and dumping cause it’s only one, but he said that the hobbs increases milk. That didn’t work for me, but I’ve heard some say it does.

May 29, 2006 at 11:22 am #8725

Anonymous
Inactive

Another note for reglan…it’s commonly used for moms who were in the situation I was in…babies in NICU after birth and have to pump for several weeks before having a baby go to breast. When you just pump it does not increase your supply like a baby does. I believe you asked a question about pumping, hopefully that will answer it.

May 29, 2006 at 1:14 pm #8728

Anonymous
Inactive

That is true that pumping doesn’t boost supply as well as a nursing infant, but I successfully pumped enough milk to feed my non-nursing babies, AND freeze an ample supply to save for later. I am now feeding Myles frozen breast milk…I stopped pumping when he was five months old. He is 8 months old now and I still have at least a two or three month supply of milk for him. That’s with giving him only breast milk except for one bottle of formula at bedtime. So, you can successfully increase your milk supply with pumping, but like Kristen said, a nursing infant is the best way to increase milk production. So, definitely nurse as much as you possibly can.

I hope this encourages you to keep trying if nursing is really what you want to do.

Oh, and about the beer. My doctor told me it helps increase supply because it relaxes the mom. It didn’t work for me, though. I’m too uptight for a little beer to calm me down!
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