Another CIO question

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

I know there’s already a thread about CIO but my question/situation is different enough that I thought I’d stat a new thread.

My DD is just 3 months old so my first concern is whether she is too young for CIO in the first place. And our problem usn’t night waking but rather getting her to sleep somewhere other than ON me.

She has silent reflux and since she came home from the hospital has needed to be held in order to sleep. We have since gotten her reflux under control and I was so sure once she wasn’t bothered by it anymore this sleep thing would resolve itself. Yeah right! Initially she had to be upright to sleep and nothing worked – the carseat, the swing, the tucker sling – except for us to hold her. Now I think it’s just become a habit. However, it’s hard to know for sure. The times that I try to put her down to sleep (and you have to get her to sleep before you can even try to set her down) she will wake after a few minutes and start fussing. I have let her cry for 10-15 minutes, just to see if she would settle down, but she just keeps on going. Then when I pick her up she usually burps. I don’t know if the burp is what woke her up or if the burp is from all of the crying.

So I guess my question is (besides is she too young for CIO) has anyone had success getting a reflux baby to sleep on their own after being held for months? And does letting them CIO cause excess gas which just makes things worse or can CIO be successful for refluxers?

Karen

[Anonymous]

Karen,

Let me preface by saying that I am not opposed to CIO or controlled crying and did it with my older one. (And intend to do something whether controlled crying or something else with Hailey when she is well enough). So that’s where I’m coming from in my reply.

I also wanted to ask you- do you have to hold her all night, or only until she is in deep sleep. I wasn’t quite sure from reading your post.

Hailey is now 10 months old and has had severe sleeping problems much like you describe with Tess. In fact she started out exactly the same, and now what started out and continued due to uncontrolled reflux is still going on. She improved a bit in that she went from needing to be held all night, to needing to be held for some of the night, to sleeping in her own bed in our room with frequent night wakings. But she doesn’t know how to put herself to sleep. The problem is that we don’t know how bad the reflux is to keep her awake, though I suspect that much of what’s going on is habit and partly only reflux even though her reflux seems quite bad.

My pediatrician feels strongly that it is not right to do CIO on a baby younger than four months old as per Ferber. He says at 4 months that they develop mentally in a way that makes it more acceptable. He always tells me that he did CIO with his refluxer at that time (his child is now a thriving teenager). He always tells me that up until 4 months you have to “spoil them rotten if that’s what they need”. But that’s just his opinion.

That being said, there are gentler methods like the babywhisperer pick up/put down but this didn’t work for Hailey. I do believe that crying causes more gas which worsens the reflux. This is certainly the case for us. I believe that sleep training will work for any child if the right method is chosen (different things work for different kids), but I believe that they have to be old enough and have to be well. My sister had to hold my niece all night until she was 4 months, but at that time they did cio and she turned into a great sleeper and an amazing napper. Tess is still young, so hopefully this will resolve no problem for you. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Hi Lori,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. We do hold Tess all night long. When the reflux wasn’t under control she would wake up several times a night with episodes and we would pat, bounce, shh her to get her back to sleep. Now she pretty much only wakes up to eat once in the middle of the night. She used to only nap for 30 minutes or less before having an episode. Now she can go as long as 3 hours in the baby wrap. So I feel strongly that most of this is habit. But I too have read that 3 months is young for CIO. I’m not really considering full-on CIO, with potentially hours of crying but instead just letting her fuss for short intervals to see if she can put herself to sleep. Perhaps it’s too early for that as well.

Karen

[Anonymous]

Karen, I’m not sure if it’s too early. I guess it’s a personal choice. Hopefully someone else will respond. I would think it’s okay as long as she’s not crying for so long that she gets too worked up which might worsen the reflux. Sometimes they need to cry a bit to fall asleep. I really feel for you. It’s so exhausting. I slept upright holding Hailey and bouncing her around the room when she woke for I can’t even remember how many months. My husband and I are discussing trying pickup/putdown with her on Friday because the lack of sleep is destroying us. I really hope things go well for you. Let me know what you decide.

[Anonymous]

If she is just fussing you may want to let her go just to see what she will do. I used to only put my son to bed when he was asleep and get him every time he stated to fuss and squirm around. At 3 months I started putting him to bed awake and waiting untill he really stated crying to get him during the night and half of the time he will go back to sleep on his own.

He allways fusses for about 10-15 min. before going to bed at night or even for a nap (which he still has to do in the swing). I wind up his mobile and put a toy on the side of his crib and that helps to distract him while he gose to sleep.

I allways come get him right away if he really starts crying so I figure if he was really hurting he would cry for me. I think he is just a bit uncomfotable and/or overstimulated at times and needs to work it out on his own.

I know they are more comfortable on thier stomachs so that is probably why she wants to be on you. my son used to spend at least an hour or two every night sleeping on me. Now he gets too distracted and will not settle down when I hold him, he thinks it is time to play, even at 3:00 am

Good luck and I hope things get better for you soon.

[hellbennt]

what happens if you wear her to sleep, then after she’s asleep 20 minutes or so, put her on her tummy (read more below) and as she fusses from the transition out of the wrap in to the crib, then jiggle her butt/shhhhh and try a pacifier…3 months is a short time on the planet, especially with a good portion of it having been in pain/uncomfortable…I don’t know if I believe in ‘habit’ at this age- I believe your baby could be uncomfortable? does mylanta help soothe her?

You might want to try tummy sleeping?

This is from the American Academy of Pediatrics & how they recommend that tummy sleeping is best for GERD babies. http://www.aap.org/new/sids/question.htm (thanks Sherry & Christine!)

There’s a monitor that you can use called the Angel Care Monitor that many of the parents on this board have had great success with. Jonah was sent home with a monitor from the hospital, so I don’t know firsthand about the Angel Care monitor, but here’s all about it: https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/search.asp?KW=angelcare&am p;SM=2&SI=TC&FM=0&OB=2

BEANIE BABY: for day time naps I suggest this: Try putting her on her tummy & put a beanie baby on her back for 2 reasons- to see that she’s breathing (the beanie baby will go up & down )

& for the weight- put your hand on her back & then slowly leave it & the beanie baby is there instead…

For sleeping, there’s also the Tucker Sling that people rave about: https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/search.asp?KW=tucker&S M=1&SI=TC&FM=0&OB=2

as well as the Amby Hammock: https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/search.asp?KW=amby&SM= 1&SI=TC&FM=0&OB=2

[Anonymous]

I can tell you how I taught all of my three babies to sleep in their own beds. Like most mom’s I would feed and snuggle my newborns until they were asleep, but then before laying them down in their crib, I would jostle them a little, or give them big kiss, to make sure they were slightly awake. This way they became used to actually falling asleep in their bed. As they got older they’d become more awake when I laid them down, but they were used to falling asleep in bed, so they’d still go right to sleep.

I knnow Tess is not a newborn anymore, so it probably will be a little trickier, but I’ve tried this with babies I took care of as a nanny and it worked for them, too. If you are sure the problem is habit, and not discomfort from reflux, then this would be a really good time to start some sleep training. (After 4 months it becomes much more difficult).

Definitely, not CIO – she’s too young, but something gentler like Lori suggested (Pick-up,put down). Pick up, put down is similar to what I did as a nanny with babies who did not yet sleep in their own beds, and with my own when we had set backs with sleeping after an illness or just developmental changes. I’d have a little bedtime or naptime routine, (snuggle time in the rocker, a bottle or whatever), but then I’d put them to bed to fall asleep on their own, and if they cried when I put them down, I’d stay and comfort them in bed. (I usually didn’t pick them up, but always comforted them). I’d let them cry maybe 2 – 3 minutes, then return and comfort them with patting, head rubbing, or whatever (each liked something different). I’d come and go until they went to sleep. If it took over 1/2 hour I’d usually pick them up and try again later, but I would not let them sleep on me or anywhere else during that time. *I also use white noise for my babies and I think that helps a lot.

Another trick that worked for some of the babies I took care of was to put them in their beds as soon as I noticed they were getting grumpy, but put some toys or a crib mirror in their view. Some babies will be content if they have something to look at and if they are tired enough will drift off to sleep. I did this for my son for his daytime naps for a while when his reflux was bad and I didn’t want him to cry.

I hope some of this helps.

[Anonymous]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all of the input. I do worry that she’s too young to really learn from CIO. We did it with my first daughter but she was much older (lucky for us she was a good sleeper early on). On the other hand I know that every day that goes by we’re reinforcing a habit that we don’t want.

We have tried tummy sleeping with no better results (both flat and on the tucker wedge). I keep trying it though in hopes of improvement.

I definitely think some kids just need to fuss before falling asleep but with Tess she works herself up so quickly that it’s hard to know how long to let her go.

Laura – Mylanta has never done anything for Tess. As for transfering her, once she starts fussing no amount of patting or jiggling will calm her down. If she really starts to cry even picking her up won’t calm her down. I have to bounce around and shh her as loud as I can before she’ll stop crying.

Christine – The problem with not picking her up is that she won’t calm down unless I do. If she gets going hard enough she won’t even stop when I do pick her up.

I guess I just have to keep trying things and hopefully something will start to work. I’m just so tired. It’s getting harder and harder for me to sleep when she’s on me at night. Thanks for your help.

Karen

[Anonymous]

I’m generally not a fan of them, but will she take a pacifier? Do you
have any sort of soother in her crib? We have a toy called a flutterby
dreamscapes soother and it plays lullabies and soft lights on the
ceiling – totally distracted DD when she was younger and would help
lull her to sleep. We still use it now as part of her routine.

We stopped rocking/jiggling to sleep at about 6 weeks and were lucky –
Marisa would fuss a tiny bit, we’d rub her back/butt and put on the
birds and it usually would end there – sometimes we’d have to pick her
up once or twice and soothe her if she were really overtired.

[hellbennt]

routine: https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2802&a mp;PN=1&TPN=1

[Anonymous]

I’m HUGE on routines. We try to do the same thing before each of her
naps and before bedtime – really helps her to know what’s coming next.

[Anonymous]

Thanks again, everyone.

We were big with routines (still are) with our first DD so I know they can help a lot. Unfortunately right now our routine is tailored to having Tess sleep on us. I guess we need to adjust that.

She does take a pacifier but can’t quite keep it in by herself yet. She also is trying to suck her thumb. Those both help but since we have to hold the paci/thumb in her mouth it’s not the best solution at the moment. Hopefully she’ll get the hang of it soon.

We’ll keep trying and plugging along for now. I did get her to nap for 30 minutes in her crib on the tucker wedge this afternoon so that’s something.

Karen

[Anonymous]

What pacifiers have you tried? During the 12 weeks that Marisa had one
(she’s a huge thumb sucker instead) the only one she’d take and keep in
her mouth was a Soothie…

[Anonymous]

I started my son on CIO when he was 3.5 months old. It was to the point that he wouldn’t sleep on me, If I took a deep breath, he’d wake up. I would lay him down to CIO and he’d SCREAM (never had that cute baby cry) and I’d feel too guilty after 15 mintues and go to pick him up and unbelievably he’d scream and cry even harder like I was making him more mad. Logan would have to CIO for almost an hour (the book I read said not to let them cry for more than one hour) and he ALWAYS fell asleep before the hour was up, it may have been 53 minutes, but it was under and hour and then he’d finally get REAL sleep (which I don’t think he could get REAL sleep while sleeping on me). Also I wanted to mention that after CIO Logan was actually a happy baby when he’d wake up and smiling for the first time! Before CIO he would kick and scream all day long and just be misserable. He was crying all day anyway, so it was an easier decision for me. OH, and I laid him on his tummy and he coughed and choked and he never stopped breathing. Also, I could hear him refluxing in his sleep over the monitor (if I opened the door, he’d pop his head up immediately – so I could never check on him that way) so I knew the acid wasn’t the only thing keeping him up…..Also, my son feverishly sucks his two fingers when he sleeps and/or sucks the nose of a stuffed animal. Strangely he would always tuck a blanket or stuffed animal under his tummy when he slept on his tummy too. Don’t know if the pressure on his tummy made him more comfortable?

My son is almost three years old now and I have yet to see him look tired or sleepy – I’ve always had to lay him down to bed WIDE AWAKE and when he wakes up, he looks WIDE AWAKE like he never slept (most kids look groggy).

lansima2006-3-30 11:53:46

[Anonymous]

It’s funny you should ask, Karen, as we have about 5 different pacifiers in our house right now. Early on the Soothie worked best but now Tess prefers the Nuk. I really thought she was getting the hang of sucking her thumb about a month ago but since then she’s actually gotten worse at being able to keep it in her mouth. Not sure what that’s about. She’s also chewing a LOT right now – I guess she could be teething but it seems early.

Marsha – Thanks for sharing your experience with me. Logan sounds very similar to my 1st DD – never does anything halfway.

[Author]

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