December 11, 2012 at 3:44 pm #71293AnonymousInactive
Hi everyone, my son is 8 months old and has been on compounded Prilosec since about 3 months. He started at 2mL two times a day, then 2.5mL two times a day and recently he went to 3mL two times a day. He is almost 19 pounds. He takes the first omeprazole kit, compounded at the pharmacy. Their web site says it neutralizes acid for 30 days, but based on other posts I’ve read here, is that possible?
My son has always been a terrible sleeper, with multiple night wakings and short naps, and we are about to start sleep training. When we upped his dose to 3 mL last week, we saw a slight reduction in night cries. He is still up twice a night and wakes early for the day. Before we start sleep training, I want to make sure his reflux isn’t acting up to cause these wakings. We hired a sleep consultant who said his reflux should probably be gone by now, but the pedi GI isn’t convinced this is true.
Based on the MARCI-Kids chart, it looks like he could be taking an even higher dose? The pedi GI said 3 mL is as high as they go and to see if it influences his sleep. It has, but only slightly.
Any advice or insight? Should we be looking into a different kind of medicine, perhaps TCM?
ShanaDecember 11, 2012 at 6:59 pm #71294
welocme! you’ve found a great place to RESEARCH and learn all you can so that you can be the best advocate for your baby!
I would NOT start sleep training until you know that the reflux is under control. HOW does the sleep trainer know?
YOU are the mama!
YOU must decide if your baby is in pain.
ME, I would increase the dose and I would TELL the dr to TELL the pharmacist EXACTLY how to compound the meds.
Then, I would research the products, buy them, and use them w/ a PROPER dose.
scroll to the last page of this post, (it’s actually also about other PPIs like prilosec, too)
You can learn about “the products” here: https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14939
and you can purchase these products at:
I may sound bossy & harsh and I may just sound like a know-it-all.
I AM a self-proclaimed expert! I’ve been on this board for 9+ yrs now & I take pride in knowing all that I do!
I work full time, have two kids, a husband and I run this board because I can’t stop helping parents of babies w/ reflux!
This board and all that I learned here SAVED my baby and ME and my FAMILY!
ME, I would increase to marci-kids dosing, w/ the products. You can always back down (then if you see things worsen, you increase again)…
ME, I would give zantac at night, at the first waking! ME, I would mix it w/
the store brand equivalnet of what used to be Mylanta Cherry Supreme.
I would say try some mylanta cherry supreme before naps, too.
Mylanta Cherry Supreme is the one variety of mylanta that does not contain aluminum.you can’t find it anymore, but you can find store brand equivalents. Try rite-aid, cvs brand, walmart, target, Bartell Drug (West coast), Dollar General, brand names: Geri-Care & Geri-Lanta Supreme, meijer, etc- just look for one that does not list aluminum in the ingredients.
you can give 1ml up to 5 times a day- it’s safe, even for newborns. if you see loose stools back off.December 13, 2012 at 6:51 pm #71312AnonymousInactive
Thank you Laura!! You don’t sound bossy or harsh at all, very helpful actually. A few questions…
Why Zantac instead of
Prilosec at the first waking? Because he doesn’t need to wait 30 minutes
to eat? Is it okay to use Zantac in the same day as Prilosec? He was on Zantac
initially when he was little but it didn’t seem to be helping much. And how does the Mylanta help?
The pharmacy (Mary Bridge in Tacoma, WA) is apparently one of the places that pioneered compounding Prilosec, according to our pedi GI. I just couldn’t find any information on these boards about the First brand kit that they use. Have you heard of it? Any thoughts?
The proper Prilosec dose looks to be 8.5mg (4.25 mL)…three times a day? He’s almost 19 pounds. The pedi GI told us that 3mL twice a day was the maximum he would dose but that’s 6 mL total, nowhere near the 12+ that the MARCI Kids chart says to use. How can I be sure it’s safe?
Thank you for your advice!!December 13, 2012 at 7:42 pm #71313
I’m not sure how to tell you it’s safe…there are articles here on the Medicine Forum & there’s been a lot of research done at the U of Missouri…ME, I believe they’re safe…
I also don’t know a thing about the First Kit- all I know is the products that were first developed at the U of Missouri…
as for zantac, it CAN be used w/ a PPI – it just needs to be spaced abput 4hrs from it – zantac is good for ‘break through’ acid – it’s good in general- it needs to be given at a higher dose, too – the max dose by weight is 10mgs per kilo – it’s safe- so why that and the mylanta-type meds? just to mix it up a little, lol – I don’t know- bcse you might need the whole PPI dose in the 3 doses & if you’ve ‘used’ your dose for the day then you might need something ‘more’
also the mylanata-type meds are good for a qucik fix- I used it A LOT w/ my second baby, the one w/o the reflux, lol!
hope I’ve helped some…
hellbennt2012-12-13 19:45:26December 17, 2012 at 2:36 am #71315AnonymousInactive
heatmachine… I hate to even come on and give any advice after Laura. Cause even though she isn’t a know-it-all. She does know A LOT and knows a lot more than I about the things you asked about. But I also know that she doesn’t mind me sharing my ideas here too.
So, my question would be… Have you ever thought of, or tried probiotics or digestive enzymes with your son? Both of my boys suffered badly from reflux and we tried many different things including meds. It wasn’t until they were ages 2 and 4 that I learned about probiotics and enzymes. They are not a cure-all but they truly have done wonders for my children, and many other children too. Just thought I’d check and see if that was something you knew much about or have considered trying??December 17, 2012 at 2:39 am #71316AnonymousInactive
P.S. My boys were TERRIBLE sleepers too. For 4 YEARS after my oldest was born I rarely ever had a full nights rest.December 17, 2012 at 12:32 pm #71317AnonymousInactive
Hi Martha, we haven’t tried probiotics or digestive enzymes…I know we thought about it when he was small and gassy but never did try it. Is there a certain brand or type you recommend we try? Thank you for the advice!December 17, 2012 at 1:49 pm #71318AnonymousInactive
Here is some information on why and how probiotics and enzymes can help with reflux and digestive problems…
Before a baby is born, their digestive tract is sterile- meaning it is free from bacteria. The baby will pick up it’s first “dose” of good live bacteria (also known as probiotics or gut flora) from the birth canal. Whatever kind of probiotics mom has in there is what the baby will get. The next “dose” which is the highest strongest dose a baby will ever get, is from colostrum. Probiotics play a huge role in the health of the baby. They make up over 70% of the immune system and they are what line, coat, and protect the entire digestive tract.
Antibiotics kill not only bad bacteria but the good also. If a mother has been on many different antibiotics throughout her life it can alter her probiotics. This in turn will alter what kind the baby gets. If the mother has been on antibiotics while pregnant, for sure close to or at the time of giving birth this can severely alter the probiotics that baby gets. In fact, if on antibiotics at the time of birth, the mother may have no probiotics to pass on to her baby. And of course if baby has antibiotics at any given time it will kill off the probiotics. If the mother takes them while nursing, she will pass them on to her baby and it also will kill his/her probiotics.
If a baby is born by c-section, this can make him/her be behind in building up the probiotics. But if he/she gets plenty of colostrum it will certainly help.
Some babies who are born by c-section, are on antibiotics, get no colostrum, or all of the above, are not necessarily doomed for digestive problems. Some babies are really strong and healthy and their body has no problems making and building up its own probiotics. But for some, this can be the start to the digestive system not working well.
Another problem for some children can be a lack of sufficient digestive enzymes. Digestive enzymes are what are in all foods (before they are cooked or processed) to aid in breaking them down. They are especially needed for breaking down proteins. If a nursing mom eats a diet of mostly raw foods this can help some but unless the foods are organically grown, they are not very enzyme rich. The pancreas is what makes digestive enzymes and it will try to compensate for the lack of them in foods, but for some babies it can be difficult for their pancreas to keep up making enough to break down the food (proteins in particular) that they take in whether it be through breast milk, formula, or solids as they get older.
For some babies, they can inherit the problems of their body not making enough digestive enzymes, and for these children, they may carry this problem all of their life. Just like the diabetic doesn’t make enough insulin.
When “food” is placed in the stomach, the stomach will excrete a small amount of acid to activate the enzymes so they will start breaking down the food. If there are no or little enzymes, then the stomach will excrete a little more acid. Eventually the food is forced into the intestines even if it isn’t fully properly broken down. If the food isn’t broken down then it will very difficult for the body to be able to absorb and use it. For some children, this undigested food will sit in the intestines too long and the longer “food” stays in the intestines, the more moisture that is drawn out of it, and it can cause constipation.
This excess acid that the stomach makes, can play a major part in some babies digestive problems. Too much acid will kill probiotics. And beings that probiotics are the protective coating for the entire digestive tract, then without it, the food, reflux, or stool will rub right up next to the esophagus and intestines themselves and can cause them to become raw, inflamed, and even bleed sometimes.
So, how have digestive enzymes and probiotics affected my children? Well, they have made a huge difference. Cure? No! They have been taking a supplement of them for 2 years and today they are able to eat any and all foods. But they have to take a pill with every meal and any snack that does not have enzymes in it. I still try not to let my boys a lot of dairy though. But if they ask for a glass of milk I normally let them. They were not used to drinking milk when they were younger so it is not something they like terribly well. One evening awhile ago, when I let them have a glass of milk, I reminded them to take a pill with it. After they went to sleep and I was sitting in their room with my laptop, I noticed how restless Quinton was. Soon he sat fully up he was so uncomfortable but he didn’t wake up. This reminded me so much of how he used to be and I got to thinking that he had probably not taken a pill. So I went and got 2 of them with a glass of water and woke him up and made him take them. I was impressed how in about a minute he completely settled down and peacefully slept the rest of the night.
There are many different brands and companies out there that sell probiotic and enzyme supplements. We use a product called “Digestive Health” sold by Core Health Products. It contains 13 different strains of pH stabilized probiotics, prebiotics (which are food for the probiotics), over 20 types of broad spectrum plant based digestive enzymes, and several different types of soothing herbs. Because of my experience and research, I personally feel there are some really important things to look for in a product to ensure that they will be of the most help. If interested in trying a different brand than what we use, I will give you a list of what to look for.
If you decide to try probiotics and/or enzymes, be aware that it can possibly make symptoms worsen for a day or two. This is called Herxheimer Reaction. The Herxheimer Reaction is an immune system reaction to the toxins (endotoxins) that are released when large amounts of pathogens are being killed off, and the body does not eliminate the toxins quickly enough. Simply stated, it is a reaction that occurs when the body is detoxifying and the released toxins either exacerbate the symptoms being treated or create their own symptoms. The important thing to note is that worsening symptoms do not indicate failure of the treatment in question; in fact, usually just the opposite.*
After much experience and research, I have created a blog (see signature) where I have put a lot of information about digestive problems. If interested you can read on there and might find some more helpful information. There is also numerous stories from other moms about how they got help for their little ones. Happy Mom2012-12-17 13:52:14December 19, 2012 at 5:46 pm #71321
probiotics & enzymes certainly can’t hurt; Matha isn’t the first mom on this board to recommend them
probiotics, brands used:January 18, 2013 at 12:01 am #71454
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