Home › Forums › Infant Reflux Information › Miscellaneous › rambling post with several questions
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June 19, 2006 at 9:38 pm #10088AnonymousInactive
Hi everyone,
I have several issues/questions so I wasn’t really sure where to post this. I’ll try to keep it organized but I make no promises…
1st issue: Tess is on Prilosec which has been working well for 2 months now. We did have one set back but we got her dose increase (she had gained a lot of weight since the initial script was written) and that seemed to fix things. Today she seemed to be having some issues again but there are a lot of complicating factors. First, I was trying to see if I could get her sleeping flat (she’s been on a wedge up until now). She didn’t seem to have any reflux episodes and her first nap was 1.5 hours (a good one for her) but perhaps this caused problems as the day wore on (I attempted to put her down for 3 more naps, each one getting shorter than the last)? I believe she might be teething although there are no bumps on her gums. Hard to say. Could that exasperate the reflux? Lastly, she’s working on sitting up. She wants to do it all of the time and, of course, it makes her spit up. Even if it’s been hours since she ate she will spit up if I let her sit up too long. So with all of that going on I’m unsure if I should be concerned about her pseudo reflux behavior. Is it for real or related to one of these other things?
2nd issue: Tess is still waking up twice a night to eat. I know that “they” say that babies are physically capable of sleeping through the night at 6 months of age. We’re just a week shy of that mark and I don’t see her magically sleeping through 7 days from now. Before we had her medication sorted out Tess was a big comfort eater. She has NEVER refused a bottle (and she has the thighs to show for it – LOL!). Even today I don’t think she would push a bottle away, even if you tried to feed her 20 ounces in a sitting. She would probably continue eating until she was so full that she would barf it up. Because of this I am never sure when she’s truly hungry. She doesn’t fall asleep while eating at night – it’s not something that she needs in order to go to sleep. She eats, we put her back in the crib still awake, and she goes to sleep on her own. During the day I put her down for her naps without a bottle beforehand. So it’s not that she’s using it to get to sleep. But I wonder if she wakes because she’s hungry or because it’s a habit. Any input?
3rd issue (related to the other two): I hate how this whole reflux thing has made me completely doubt my instincts as a mother. Tess is my second daughter. If it weren’t for this reflux I would know when she was hungry, when it was OK to let her cry for awhile, that sometimes spit up is just spit up and nothing to worry about…. But because Tess has reflux I feel like she’s my first all over again. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate it! So that’s not much of an issue per se but a general rant I guess.
Well, if anyone has any advice or insight I’d love to her it. TIA!
Karen
June 20, 2006 at 3:12 am #10092AnonymousInactiveawww Karen i really really remember those days. andy was my second and like your little tess he really threw me for a loop. a whole new set of rules to learn and teach my husband too! tons of research to do on stuff i had never even considered before…intolerances, allergies, solids or no solids theory of trying to keep reflux down blah blah blah.
for us that first round of teething was soo drawn out and painful for andy. if you are sure that her meds are where she is not in pain most of the day..i mean showing signs of pain due to reflux like arching back, screaming or trying to feed after spitting up. if she isn’t in pain then i would say that it probably is teething.
oh boy on sleeping and eating at night. you may not want to hear my story because it may scare you. andy was still feeding at night until oh 2 months ago. because of his extensive dietary restrictions coupled with a dive for the worse at 8 months i kept feeding on demand. but i would only do so in small incremements, do the positioning etc etc. as he got older and proved to tolerate larger bottles then he got them. it was ridiculously slow process. but i also knew that he just came with an entirely different set of rules from a non GERDling and as he got past 18 months and the reflux was giving us a beating again i realized that even some of the rules that GI docs have for GERDlings were not applying to my andy. for us that “they outgrow reflux when they can walk” was a load of $#%*
so i kept night feeding until i got the good news of one fabulous growth spurt and some evidence that he could tolerate a few more solid foods. super slow process..well slower than what a lot of other mothers are used to. up until then i knew in my gut that he needed that night feeding to just maintain 50 percentile on the growth chart.
from that big growth spurt at 18 months or so i tried to work on feeding round the clock during the day all while trying not to upset his stomach and cause the reflux to rear its head at night. i only started putting more limitations as andy acquired a way to understand other options.
so when his language exploded 3 weeks before his 2nd birthday i was able to obtain more progress on getting him to tell me if it was pain or if it was true hunger. that helped with decreasing the night feeding.
after that point it became crystal clear that it was habit. i know parents want their sleep but please always keep in mind that Tess may have a different set of rules and let that guide you. you’ll know once she is much older and has consitent growth spurts what it is that she can give up and what she can’t.
she’ll show you what her signs of pain are and you will know what to look for so that you can distinguish whether it is time for a med increase or whether it is time to change the way you feed her.
June 20, 2006 at 6:37 am #10094AnonymousInactiveHi Patty,
Thanks for the input. The problem with Tess is that she’s no where near falling off the growth charts! She’s at the 75% minimum. My best guess right now is that she’s probably more like 90%. She’s a chunk (and this made it difficult to get anyone to take her reflux seriously). In the beginning I know she ate so much for comfort but now I think much of it is habit. She just doesn’t know when she’s full. I don’t plan to try to take away her night bottles just yet. I would really, really like for her to give them up on her own. But if she’s waking because of habit I know that the sooner I get that to stop the better. Thanks!
June 20, 2006 at 8:05 am #10095hellbenntKeymasterI can’t remember who’s tried tummy sleeping & who has not- so let me just ‘put it out there’ & if you’ve already replied that this doesnt work for Tess, I’m sorry
Yes, teething makes (can make) reflux a whole lot worse…one theory is that it’s due to the extra histimines in the drool/saliva; that’s why bendryl helps, as it’s an antihistimine…
as for the sitting and spitting (sounds funny), if she’s not in pain from it then I wouldn’t worry about it…it’s a developmental stage and she’s gonna learn to sit up eventually, so I guess just let her…
as for habit at night or hunger- I wrote what we did about this (it was at 8 and 1/2 months when I felt that jonah’s reflux was under control. unfortunately it took that long to get to that point…) here, I found it: I posted all about this recently here- how I did it & how I ‘knew’ his reflux was under control and he wasn’t hungry, etc : https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4769&a mp;a mp;a mp;KW=experiment
It’s so hard to be a mama to these little refluxers…
~laura
June 20, 2006 at 8:50 am #10096AnonymousInactiveMy son Sebastian is just over six months and is still up ounce a night for a bottle. I too worry about it being, or becoming, a habit. I have not tried to get him off the night bottle yet and don’t really plan too. There are a few factors that make me think it has more to do with hunger then habit.
He has consistently worked his way down in night time feedings. He stated at every 1 ½ – 2 hours(sure don’t miss those nights ) Then three bottles a night, then two and now one. He also wakes up a different times to eat, any where between 2:00-6:00. He has also gone a few nights without eating at all . And the biggest one is that he can get himself back to sleep on his own. Many times he will wake up and “talk” and play in his crib for up to an hour and then go back to sleep. Other times he wakes up screaming his head off and he freaks out until he gets the bottle in his mouth. I have stated making it before bed and giving it to him cold cuz he hates to wait.
I really hope he will outgrow this on his own and I will not have to make an issue of it. I have read all the tips, like just give then water when they wake up. He used to have such a hard time at night I just don’t have it in me to go back to all that. Right now it is not all that bad. The whole process takes less then half an hour. He eats burps and plays in bed for a little while and goes back to sleep. It just does not seen worth it to make an issue of it at this point.
Ok, I am not really sure if there is any advice in there. I guess I am just stumbling along trying to figure it all out myself. I can say there is a huge difference between getting up ounce a night and getting up twice a night. Since you are already not getting a very good nights sleep, it may be worth trying to eliminate at least one of the night feedings. I know there is a sleep book that a lot of moms here have mentioned. I do not remember the name, but I am sure someone will post it. Eating twice a night seems a bit much for a six month old. At least one that is a “hardy” eater during the day .
I hope you can work it out and start getting some sleep soon. Good luck!!
June 20, 2006 at 8:56 am #10098AnonymousInactiveLaura – Thanks for the link. I remember reading that post before but at the time it didn’t apply to me. I think I will give Tess some more time to see if she’ll change her habits and then I might try the water. Thanks!
Katey – Yes, things are certainly better than they were (waking every 30 minutes screaming) so I try to remind myself of that. Tess wakes up at almost the same times every night and shows no signs of changing her routine. That’s part of why I think this might just be habit for her. But if we go in and try to just give her her pacifier she freaks out. Nothing but the bottle will do. So maybe she needs the food. I just don’t know. See what I mean about not trusting my instincts? It’s so frustrating! I hope Sebastian continues to wean himself and you don’t have to worry about it. We were spoiled with our first DD… she just stopped waking up for a bottle at night at 3.5 months.
Karen
June 20, 2006 at 9:26 am #10100AnonymousInactiveDo you think that maybe she needs another dose increase – maybe an email to Joel would be good (before he leaves us .) Is her medication perhaps wearing off during the night? I am a firm believer that having the reflux totally under control makes all the difference in the sleeping, eating and everything. Our daughter woke up cranky in the middle of the night 2 times last week so we bumped her meds up a little bit at her evening dose and wooohooo, hasn’t woke up at night since. She had been sleeping through the night (mostly) since 2 months old and I totally credit that to having the right medication, the right dose, and the correct amount of doses. Just something you may want to consider. Hope everything works out!!
Robin
June 20, 2006 at 9:50 am #10101AnonymousInactiveA few thoughts…..
First, I agree with Robin. She may need a higher dose of Prilosec. How much does she weigh?
On the comfort feeding…..it’s possible that she is over eating…and this is contributing to the spitting up. If Myles eats even an ounce, or a few bites more than he needs, he promptly spits up or throws up. Most of the advice concerning reflux is to offer small, frequent meals, and not to over feed. I’m not suggesting that you should limit her intake….just keep on eye on it and see if her comfort eating may be contributing.
You mentioned that you put her down for 4 naps. I wonder if she may be getting too much day time sleep, and this is causing her night waking. By six months all of my babies were on a two nap a day schedule. Usually 1 1/2 to 2 hrs in the am, and the same in the afternoon. Does she need that many naps? How much day time sleep is she getting?
Instead of a wedge, you could maybe try doing what I do with Myles. I folded up a thick blanket and put it under his crib mattress, raising it about 6 inches. It’s not high enough for him to slip down, but enough to help keep his reflux from bothering him in his sleep.
And, I totally get you about doubting your mommy instincts. My first was so easy, I felt like wonder mom. I always, always knew what she needed and wanted. My reflux babies have challenged my sanity and made me doubt myself as a mother because they are hard to figure out. You’re doing a great job!
Christine
June 20, 2006 at 10:53 am #10105AnonymousInactiveRobin – I know that Tess’ dose is lower than what is recommended on the MARCI website but it’s the best I can get from her doctors (we’ve already switched doctors twice). We have a check-up with the GI next Monday so we’ll see what he says then. We just upped her dose a couple of weeks ago because I was starting to see the reflux signs. This time around I don’t see that so much. She isn’t arching during her feedings, no waking up screaming, no gagging, etc. I’m starting to think more and more it’s teething but I’m not sure.
Christine – I figured someone would ask about the naps. LOL! Tess is not a very good napper. She was improving but just in the past week things have slid backwards again (maybe because of teething????). She takes so many naps because they are often only 30 minutes long. I basically keep her up for 2-2.5 hours between naps. After that amount of time she’s usually getting sleepy. Up until a week ago she was starting to do naps that were 1-1.5 hours long and then she only took 3 naps. Now if I’m lucky she’ll do 1 hour naps but usually at least 1-2 of them are only 30 minutes long… barely even worth calling a nap. I always try to get her to go back to sleep if the nap is that short – give her her pacifier, turn on her mobile, etc. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. Even when it does work I usually only get another 20-30 minutes out of her. She wakes up happy, too, which is annoying.
As for the comfort eating, I can’t really tell when she’s eating for comfort and when she’s hungry. We feed her 4-5 oz every 3-4 hours. I try to stretch it to 4 hours but often times she gets crabby after 3 hours so I give in. It could be that she’s crabby for a totally different reason but she will always take the bottle (hence the overeating) so I can never be sure if that was the problem or not. So frustrating!
I’m planning on trying to raise her mattress and get rid of the wedge. I need to do it on a weekend though, when DH is around, because it’s such a huge PITA to wrestle with the crib mattress and if she refuses to sleep without the wedge I’ll have to undo it all.
Thanks for all of the replies so far. Keep ’em coming. Did other folks have reflux-type problems when teething hit? I haven’t yet tried giving her Motrin or Tylenol for the teething. Maybe that’s worth a shot? Or maybe I should try feeding her smaller bottles while we’re going through the whole learning to sit up thing? BTW, we’ve started her on cereal and she LOVES it. Scarfs the bowl (2 Tbsp) and cries when it’s gone. She is truly a piggy! She just stares at us when we eat, looking so sad that we’re not sharing. We’ll be starting the fruits and veggies soon. Perhaps things will get better when she’s on more solids? What’s everyone’s experience been with that? TIA!
June 20, 2006 at 12:52 pm #10109AnonymousInactiveKaren,
YES, we had lots of reflux problems with teething. Myles’ reflux always tended to get worse each time he was teething….lots more spitting up and throwing up despite no more, or even less intake. (I’m using the past tense here because Hallelujah, I think he’s finally outgrowing it.)
I do give him Tylenol or Motrin. It doesn’t make the reflux any better during the teething period but does help him feel better and sleep better. Motrin works better for him, but it should be given with food because it can be hard on the tummy.
I hear you on the waiting for the weekend to try raising her mattress. I always do major crib changes on weekends too, because like you said it’s a major PITA!
Since she was napping longer before I bet it’s the teething that is waking her up. Maybe try some Motrin or Tylenol and see if she naps better.
One other suggestion I though of before but forgot to post….have you tried the Kim West idea of sitting on a chair in her room when she wakes up instead of picking her up and feeding her? Once her teething passes you may want to try something like that to break her of the feeding at night habit. On a positive note, you are actually in a good place if she wakes and talks to herself in bed and can fall asleep on her own. She will probably be a good sleeper once she’s more comfortable, and she breaks the night time bottle routine.
One last thing…have you taken inventory of her surroundings to make sure that she is not too warm or too cold, or that there aren’t any noises waking her? Might she be thirsty instead of hungry? Liza went through a period of time when she would wake up thirsty. I used to keep a bottle of fresh water in her room and if she woke up and cried I’d give her a few sips without picking her up.
I was wondering, are you a SAHM?
Christine
June 20, 2006 at 3:04 pm #10146AnonymousInactiveChristine – I just dosed her up with Tylenol (I agree Motrin works better but I don’t have any on hand) so we’ll see how it goes. Wouldn’t you know it that this afternoon she actually took a 2 hour nap! That’s a rarity as of late. She was all happy when she woke up and then within 20 minutes she was fussing again. We powered through for awhile but I finally couldn’t take it anymore and gave her the Tylenol. I walked around with her, shhing and swaying, for maybe 15 minutes and she was starting to get drowsy (she had been up for 2 hours) so I put her down in her crib. She was asleep before I finished swaddling her up. Does Tylenol kick in that quickly??? Maybe it is just teething after all? Man, I hope so. How sad is that to want your child to be teething? LOL!
Thanks for the other tips. I’m still hoping that she’ll just naturally sleep for longer stretches and stop the night feedings but I’ll keep these suggestions all in mind. I really appreciate the help.
I’m actually not a SAHM but I teach college so I have the summers off. So I guess right now I am a SAHM. However, even though I don’t teach during the summer I have several other work-related projects that have to get done (especially if I want to get tenure) so I try to do as much work as I can when Tess is sleeping. Before she was born I had anticipated having a heck of a lot more time to do stuff. Oh well.
Karen
June 20, 2006 at 3:50 pm #10151AnonymousInactiveKaren, I really don’t have much to add, but just wanted to say that I certainly sympathize with you. Having a refluxer breaks all the rules. Sometimes it’s impossible to tease out what is causing what. In many ways I am thankful that Hailey is my second baby. If she was my first I would have been plagued with so much self-doubt… there seems to be so much blame from others regarding the issues surrounding reflux, I think it’s awful. I would think that having your first child be “high needs” probably wasn’t easy either. We got both reflux and high needs with Hailey and it sure is a challenge. Hang in there, and trust your instincts. Most times mommies are right!
June 20, 2006 at 7:59 pm #10164AnonymousInactiveHi Karen,
Great news about the tylenol. It did always seem to work in about 20 minutes for Liza and Ellie, but it takes about an hour for Myles…probably because of his DGE.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the lack of time for one’s self or anything else that needs to be done! Wait till you have two or three!!!
I hope she starts sleeping throught the night soon.
Christine
June 20, 2006 at 8:08 pm #10165AnonymousInactiveLori – I feel for you with having a high needs refluxer. A good friend of mine had one of those for her first baby. Can you imagine that??? I have to admit that sometimes I feel like I got gypped the second time around since I was so sure I would get an “easy baby” – felt like I had earned one, KWIM? Thanks for the words of support.
Christine – The sleeping must have been a coincidence because she woke up after 30 minutes and was just as crabby as before. I have no idea what’s going on. And BTW, this is my second baby and there’s no way in he!! that I’m having three!
Karen
June 20, 2006 at 8:17 pm #10166AnonymousInactiveoops… I remembered right after I hit POST that you had two already, but Myles needed mommy so I couldn’t edit it. Three is rough!
Oh, well. Hopefully the sleeping will improve.
Christine
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