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May 8, 2006 at 10:33 pm #7702AnonymousInactive
I recently posted in the hip hooray topic because Jack slept more than 5 hours 2 nights in a row. I am starting to worry about long term sleeping instead of just one night at a time, which has been my sleep deprived life. For the first time, I am realizing how difficult it is going to be to sleep train him once his reflux is under control. We are on day 11 of Prevacid.
Now that he is 8 mo. old, if I put him to bed drowsy in his sleep position, he rolls out of it and tries to pull up, won’t lie still. I tried laying him down over and over again- modified pick up/put down. He just gets mad and we have to start all over again with the nighttime routine. All my old tricks for putting him to sleep aren’t working anymore. I end up nursing him to sleep and praying he will sleep all night, which he never does. Then, when he wakes up at 1am or 3am, I end up putting him in a swing for the rest of the night. I am too tired to keep trying other things, patting, briefly holding, just staying close in the room etc. I know I am making it worse, because he cannot self-soothe. He will not take a pacifier or a bottle, hates to be rocked or swaddled, if left to CIO- will outlast me every time. I don’t let him CIO because his reflux isn’t under control yet, I just know from car rides how bad it can be. He is also teething which complicates everything.
This is so foreign to me. My first son, had a pacifier and slept through the night from 3mo, once he learned to self-soothe. It only took about a week. Now that Jack is older, I don’t know where to start. He will only go to sleep if nursed or with motion. I am grateful that I don’t have to nurse him 3 times during the night anymore. I am getting scared that he is going to outgrow the swing or it will break, and then what..
Has anyone had a similar situation with an older baby? Should I just wait and see if the Prevacid keeps him sleeping all night? Has anyone tried that colic crib device that mimics a car ride?
I guess I should just ride out the teething, and wait the full two weeks and go from there. I know with older babies, every thing needs to be done gradually…My husband planned an overnight trip for our anniversary, at the end of May and I don’t know how I am going to leave him.
Jack C’s mom 2006-5-8 22:37:46 May 8, 2006 at 10:41 pm #7704AnonymousInactiveKelley, I have no advice whatsoever. Just lots of sympathy. Let me know if you figure something out (please). I’m in the same boat with Hailey, except that she’ll be a year this month. She’s never fallen asleep on her own- needs tons of soothing from me to fall asleep- rocking, pacing etc. Part of the sleep dysfunction here comes from the fact that she only sleep feeds. I never even tried CIO with her. Her reflux is still so bad, but even if it ever improves, I know that she’ll scream blue murder for hours on end so it’s not an option for us. Good luck. I know how awful the sleep deprivation is. I know others might not agree, but I think that while the reflux is still out of control, you have to do what works for you all. I don’t believe it’s easy to sleep train a sick baby. I really hope that when you get him on the right meds he’ll sleep better for you.
May 9, 2006 at 9:29 am #7724AnonymousInactiveI had to drive my son literally ON a car ride to get him to sleep when from the age of about 18 mos-3 years when his dr finally told me he could take melatonin, and agreed that she didn’t think he’d be able to get to sleep by himself ( when I let him try it took over 2 hours for him to)he is 6 and has been taking it ever since ( not an option with such a little guy, but you could hold on to it if he continues to have sleep issues as he gets older) at 3 Austin took 1.5 mgs now he takes 3. ( his dr’s (psychiatrist and ped) said melatonin is very safe and that a lot of developmentally challenged children take up to 70 mgs)
May 9, 2006 at 1:54 pm #7745AnonymousInactiveWhen you are ready to sleep train him, it will be difficult, but you will be able to do it. Right now you need to wait until his reflux is under control anyway, so maybe try not to worry so much about it now. (I know, easier said than done..I worry about everything and anything when it comes to my babies).
When I was a nanny I worked with lots of families who had older babies who had not yet learned to self-soothe and sleep alone. When their parents decided it was time, they were able to sleep train these babies. They all chose different methods, and started at different ages. The important common factors with all of these parents was that they 1. decided it was time and committed to it, 2. chose a plan and were consistent.
So, for now maybe just start reading different sleep books and thinking about what plan you’d like to try when you are ready.
Does Jack have a lovey or favorite blanket? If you start trying to get him attached to some kind of security object now, it will be helpful when you are ready to sleep train. For instance, when I gave my girls their bedtime bottle I always snuggled with them and one special blanket (that I bought several of) so that they would associate that blankie with mommy and with comfort. Then I would lay them down with that blanket every night. They both became attached to the blanket I cuddled them with, and it really helped alot with night time sleep. Liza still sleeps with her’s and she’s 4! Ellie snuggled with her blankie until she was about 2.
May 9, 2006 at 7:28 pm #7771hellbenntKeymasterI chose to focus on one night waking at a time…I chose to just deal with the fact that I had to nurse/rock/whatever jonah to sleep- this didn’t bother me so much as getting up at 1am & 3am…
so once I KNEW FOR CERTAIN he wasn’t in pain or hungry then I put him to bed at 8pm, dream/drowsy nursed him at 11pm (hoping this would tide him over, but it didn’t work!) and then when he woke up again the next time I did CIO. after 3 or 4 nights THAT time of waking was ‘addressed’ & so I moved on to the next one. Again, this took 3 or 4 nights. SO, then I was left with 11pm and when he woke up which was like 5am, which I dealt with…
May 10, 2006 at 5:03 pm #7840AnonymousInactiveKelly,
First, what is CIO?
I’m curious if your baby had this behavior of moving around and not staying still before the prevacid? If not, he may be experiencing pain..a side effect of PPI’s is abdominal cramping. My son was very fidgety and moany on prevacid.
As for sleep training…there is a book I consider my bible. It’s called “Good Night, Sleep Tight” by Kim West. I LOVE it and she has a whole chapter dedicated to medical issues, including reflux!
Kristen
May 10, 2006 at 5:18 pm #7843AnonymousInactiveMyles had stomach cramps on Prevacid, too. But only for about two weeks. Then his body adjusted to it and it doesn’t bother him at all anymore.
I saw that book on Oprah or Dr. Phil and it looks great. The author was on and explained her plan briefly, and it seemed very gentle and reasonable.
May 10, 2006 at 7:11 pm #7850hellbenntKeymasterCIO = Cry It Out
Here are some more ‘gentle’ sleep books:
(if you buy from here then http://www.thebabywearer.com gets some proceeds: http://www.thebabywearer.com/cgi-bin/bookshop.pl?locale=us&a mp;cat=sl)
The No-Cry Sleep Solution: Gentle Ways to Help Your Baby Sleep Through the Night
Elizabeth Pantley, (foreword by William Sears)
McGraw-Hill (28 March, 2002) ISBN 007138139235% off normal price ($14.95) You save $5.23
Good Nights : The Happy Parents’ Guide to the Family Bed (and a Peaceful Night’s Sleep!)
Jay Gordon, Maria Goodavage
St. Martin’s Griffin (24 July, 2002) ISBN 031227518823% off normal price ($13.95) You save $3.21
Nighttime Parenting: How to Get Your Baby and Child to Sleep
William Sears, (foreword by Mary White)
Plume (01 November, 1999) ISBN 045228148220% off normal price ($14.00) You save $2.80
Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child
Marc Weissbluth
Ballantine Books (12 April, 1999) ISBN 044900402335% off normal price ($14.95) You save $5.23
Three in a Bed : The Benefits of Sharing Your Bed With Your Baby
Deborah Jackson, Tom Newton (illustrator)
Bloomsbury USA (18 September, 1999) ISBN 158234051X 30% off normal price ($14.95) You save $4.49Sweet Dreams : A Pediatrician’s Secrets for Baby’s Good Night’s Sleep
Paul M. Fleiss
McGraw-Hill (01 December, 2000) ISBN 073730494435% off normal price ($14.95) You save $5.23
May 11, 2006 at 9:26 am #7864AnonymousInactiveThanks everyone, I will look for some of these books. I know the Baby whisperer for Toddlers has a section on night wakings for older babies, but it doesn’t seem realistic right now. I know I can’t focus on the wakings as much because the fact is he is sleeping better. I am still trying to get my ped to write for a higher dose of Prevacid, and I am giving more on my own. I hope the correct dose will help him as well. When he wakes up, he is usually coughing then crying.
As far as stomach cramps, I haven’t noticed any discomfort after the solutabs. He is just really active now, trying to crawl and pull up. I think I will have to be patient with nursing and if I can get him to only nurse/wake at 11 and 4-5, I will be happy for now.
June 5, 2006 at 7:26 am #9125AnonymousInactiveI know you wrote this a while back (I’ve been out of town) but if he’s coughing nad crying that’s DEFINITELY a sign of reflulx at night. Did the ped up the prevacid dose? You can also use Mylanta Cherry Supreme flavor at night. We also used Carafate for a while, an older med that’s been around forever, it coats the stomach like teflon and helps them sleep…
For teething we used Hyland’s teething tablets and teething gel, children’s motrin, and children’s benadryl, on top of regular reflux meds. The ped okay’d this for us as teething was such a TOTAL and complete nightmare. I fully understand your nighttime frustrations. We also now use probiotics and it is helping us tremendously.
Have you started any solid foods that you think could be suspect? At 8 mos you are probably still introducing things that could be hard on his tummny. I am asking this cause in our case, food issues were SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTING FACTORS to night wakings. High on the list of common foods that cause problems or can be allergens are: soy, dairy, peanuts, fish, wheat, and I can’t think of the others right now. My son has, problems with dairy, soy and gluten. Gluten was the part of the puzzle we didn’t know about.
Here are some links:http://www.disa.com.au/
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/t070400.asp
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/t041800.asp
I’m only suggesting this cause we realized part of our problem, but not all of it, until Lucas was 18 mos old. That’s a lot of sleepless nights! It’s not hte first thing people jump to thinking with night wakings, either. Good luck!
June 5, 2006 at 8:41 am #9137hellbenntKeymasteralso, for reflux at night:
CARAFATE!!!
it’s like ‘tephlon’ on hte esophogas…coats and soothes-
it’s prescription.
jonah used it for a brief while…
it’s GREAT
June 5, 2006 at 3:16 pm #9160AnonymousInactiveThanks everyone, Carafate is something to ask my Ped about. I am still having very frustrating nights. I just wish I only had one problem to deal with- reflux. It would be so much easier to figure out what is working and what I should change. My problem is…teething (he cut his first with the 2nd very close), non-stop ear infections/cold symptoms and his spirited personality on top of the reflux. I don’t think he is having food allergies. I have noticed much less gas since I switched to oatmeal cereal. When he does wake, he is not crying that colic cry like when he was sensitive to dairy in my milk and woke up screaming with pain.
I think half the time, Jack is waking up because he is constantly moving in his crib and sits up when drowsy and slides down the crib. By the time I go in, he is standing and awake and I have to start all over again. It is hard to know if I should just flatten his crib and see if it makes a difference in how he wakes up. I have not gotten the Tucker sling, I am not sure if he would tolerate being strapped in. I am looking at the Amby bed, have any of you tried it, and how will it work with a mobile baby?
Also, he doesn’t fall asleep nursing anymore, it takes 30min to 1 hour of continuously laying him back down or swaying/jiggling around the room until he is drowsy. I have been giving him Mylanta/Zantac at night, plus Children’s Benadryl and it is helping decrease the frequency of wakings, but is harder and harder to get him to sleep. I don’t know what else to do, I am tired of waiting. I just want one thing to be easy!
June 5, 2006 at 4:04 pm #9167hellbenntKeymasterif bf’ng him to sleep isn’t working, then just don’t do it…
it’s harder to ‘break’ later on anyway, so consider yourself ahead of the game
I’d say to start the whole evening routine (you have a routine, right?) earlier than you have been…see if that helps
the amby bed is not for mobile babies
try the bed flat- you never know…
as for ear infections/cold symptoms- could be reflux related (personally I would think so and treat it accordingly- that’s jsut me- look at marci-kids & see the animation of the whole upper respiratory system & reflux- pretty interesting)…
check the link in my welcome/intro- down towards the bottom of the page
June 5, 2006 at 4:44 pm #9169AnonymousInactiveI wonder if you may have his crib mattress raised too high. There’s another mom on this site who had her’s too high and her baby was rolling to the bottom of the crib. Maybe try lowering it a little bit so when he sits up he doesn’t slide down.
Are you sure the Zantac is controlling his reflux pain and he is not waking in pain? How often does he wake? What is like when he wakes up?
Also, I did some reading about Benadryl because I use it for Myles when he is teething. It seems that using it too often can actually cause sleep disturbances, and it can cause thickening of the nasal secretions. Based on what I read I only use it when his teething is really bad or when he has a bad cold with a stuffy nose.
Sounds like Jack is a very active baby. I’ve read in some of the sleep books that some active babies are so driven and excited about their new skills that when they do wake at night they just can’t resist practicing their gross motor skills. Have you tried not going in to his room and see if he eventually lays back down and goes to sleep? Myles used to wake every singe night at about 1am and again at about 4 or 4:30 am. Once he no longer needed night feeds I stopped going in and he eventually stopped waking at 1am and later moved his 4 – 4:30 waking until 5 or 5:30. I still ignore him at 5 or 5:30 and he usually goes back to sleep after entertaining himself for a little while. Of course, Myles doesn’t usually cry or scream, so it’s not so hard to ignore him. Does Jack cry and scream when he wakes up at night?
One last thing….you said it takes an hour of laying him back down, or swaying/jiggling him to get him to sleep. It might be better if you just put him down, left the room, and let him fall asleep on his own. Right now he’s used to you being part of the going to sleep routine, so he’s going to want you to help him go back to sleep everytime he wakes up at night because that’s the way he’s learned to go to sleep.
I hope he starts sleeping better soon.
June 6, 2006 at 11:42 am #9209AnonymousInactivewhat is he like hwen he wakes? does he wake screaming or arching or coughing? how long have you had him on a ppi? what kind of ppi? what is his weight and dose of ppi? My son also had a hard time getting to sleep and bfeeding was the only thing that worked. I suggest checking into food intolerances after everything else is settled, meaning, doses of meds are appropriately high, everything seems to be as it should be, and he STILL can’t sleep. MSPI babies are already sensitive to some foods,and it’s not out of the question that they could be sensitive to others, as well. You know him best, of course, but it’s just another idea to have out there. Night wakings are a symptom of MSPI and also of food allergies and protein intolerances. They can be intolerant to more than milk and soy proteins. If you are bfeeding, have you removed all dairy and soy from your diet as well? Sorry for all the questions, I haven’t been on the board in a while …
another idea is ….he’s 8 mos old, right? you could flatten the crib, and then put something in there that will give him a wee lift, like a firm rolled or folded blanket or wedge thing-y. Teething will DEFINITELY make things worse, as will ear infections, so it’s really hard to know without hte teething going away and the ears cleared up, what is waking him.
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