Home › Forums › Infant Reflux Information › Sleeping › Has anyone heard of this book….
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January 30, 2006 at 6:31 pm #317AnonymousInactive
My 5 month old (almost 6) daughter gets up at 4 or 4:30 am for the
day. Now she is getting up 10+ times a night all of a
sudden. I don’t know if it’s her teeth or reflux. Someone
told me of a book called “the contented little baby book” by Gina
Ford. I’ve tried her sleeping schedule, but my daughter is just
too tired all the time. I end up holding her for most naps.
Now she won’t settle well at night or in the night. She won’t
sleep in my bed she just wants me to hold her. But she cries out
when I’m holding her sometimes too.How many hours of sleep during the day and night on average should a 6
month old be getting? The book says 3 max hours a day. Any
input? It doesn’t seem enough. Has anyone read this book?January 30, 2006 at 8:00 pm #322hellbenntKeymasterJanuary 30, 2006 at 10:00 pm #331AnonymousInactiveThanks, I’ve seen that website. I was wondering if anyone has read that book and if it worked for them.
Thanks for the input!
January 31, 2006 at 4:22 am #343AnonymousInactiveI haven’t read the book, but I’m wondering if her reflux is under control. Is she on Zantac, or a ppi, or both? If she is teething, in my son’s situation, teething made his reflux TEN times worse (and it’s pretty bad to begin with!) Both our ped gi specialist and our ped said that this is normal for refluxers, the teething is a root cause of the problem, but what it really does is exacerbate their reflux and they become much more uncomfortable, mostly from the reflux. If she is teething, we have used Hyland’s teething tablets, which you can get at Walmart, or the grocery store, depending on where you live. I have also used Motrin Cold (it’s not to great for some refluxers, but for us has been great), which has a decongestant and recently the pediatrician said that as long as I carefully make sure that he’s getting the proper doses of a pain reliever, a decongestant and an antihistime, I can give all three. So, I give Motrin Cold, which is a pain reliever and decongestant, and then I give Children’s Benadryl, which is an antihistimine. (you just don’t want any of the meds to overlap in their purpose– don’t give Benadryl if she’s taking something else with antihistime in it, etc.) These three, pain reliever, decongestant, antihistime and then the Hyland’s teething tablets have made teething somewhat bearable for us, as opposed to going for days on end refusing solids, waking every 30 minutes all night for many nights in a row, bfeeding on and off all day, crying and screaming for long periods during the day and night, etc. etc. etc.
Another reason for sudden night wakings could be a developmental milestone, but I don’t know that it would cause 10+ wakings. I would seriously look into the meds situation you have, if the doses are hight enough, and maybe if she is MSPI. Good luck.
January 31, 2006 at 6:10 am #344AnonymousInactiveI’ve heard some not so good things about the Gina Ford book – seems
that the schedules in there are REALLY strict and don’t allow for much
flexibility or enough daytime sleep.Marisa is almost 6 months and generally gets about 3.5 hours day sleep
– which seems OK for her – but it depends on the baby and how much
sleep they are getting at night too. I’ve heard a rough total at 6
months is 14.5 total hours of sleep (day plus night).I agree with Anne – before you get into sleep training you really need
to make sure that her reflux is under control and the MSPI issue – no
way to sleep train a baby who doesn’t feel well.February 7, 2006 at 4:01 pm #1044AnonymousInactiveI have not heard of the Gina Ford book, but I really liked The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Her methods are very gentle, and for most babies they work. It also has a lot of really good information about sleep. I agree with the others, however, it sounds like her reflux is not under control right now, for whatever reason. Teething can wreck havoc on a sleep schedule. Also, once she becomes overtired–she may be having an even harder time falling asleep, sadly. Make sure you hire a babysitter or find someone else that can watch the baby for a bit while you nap. You make think you can handle this for awhile, but you will get burned out quickly. I know, Gabriel was waking up 8-10 times a night or more till last month. He had never slept well or napped, not even when he was a newborn. Accordin to the National Sleep Foundation Pediatric Task Force, infants from 2-12 months should be getting 14-15 hours of sleep. Emmy2006-2-7 22:7:36
February 8, 2006 at 9:32 am #1103AnonymousInactiveI’ll read the book. Thanks. I know that Abby’s reflux seems
to be better if she’s on some sort of nap schedule. Nothing
strict but something that she can rely on.I’m not convinced that her reflux is the only problem. I’ve been looking into the MSPI and she has most of the symptoms.
I also put some lavender oil on her crib sheet at top and that seemed to help also.
Thanks for all the input.
February 8, 2006 at 10:28 am #1114AnonymousInactiveThis is a quote from a Boston Globe article about this book and another like it. If it were me, I’d stay away from it; I believe that strict scheduling is harmful to babies.
Today in England there’s a growing brouhaha over what has come to be known as “controlled crying” — allowing a baby to cry as a way to manipulate him onto a schedule: If he cries because he’s hungry and the clock doesn’t say it’s time to feed him, let him cry.
Leach, a British developmental child psychologist, is so alarmed at the growing popularity of this practice that she has written a position paper this month in the journal for the World Association of Infant Mental Health urging professionals to take a stand against it. The fuel for the movement, she says, is “The New Contented Little Baby Book,” by Gina Ford, a maternity nurse, published in 2001. Ford’s book is not unlike “On Becoming Babywise,” by Gary Ezzo, executive director of Growing Families International, which drew some attention when it was published in 1998.
There is more info against Babywise (which I guess is like the Ford book) at http://www.ezzo.info. It could be that forcing her into this schedule has messed up her internal clock or affected her ability to self-soothe (crying alone is NOT self soothing), which could be causing the nightwakings. Or it could be a stage, we’ve been through many of them!
This isn’t to say that having a nap and sleep routine is bad–actually I think it’s essential. But rather than forcing your baby into one that doesn’t suit her, develop one that follows her lead and needs. For Ally, we followed the “two hour rule,” meaning that until she was around 5 mo, we had quiet sleepy time (by bouncing on a ball, wearing in a sling, or driving in the car) at least every 2 hours, earlier if she needed it). Sometimes this produced a nap, other times she just quieted down–but it prevented her from being overtired and taught her that when she’s tired, she should sleep. This gradually evolved into a great nap routine over time–she went from every to hours to 4 naps a day, then 3, now 2 at generally predictable times (around 9:30 and around 2). I think this is a much better way to encourage sufficient sleep.
I really like the No Cry Sleep Solution. I’ve been using alot of her suggestions for months now and Ally sleeps okay (not great, but sufficiently) and has never CIO. For a less gentle, more “mainstream” option, Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child is also good, although he states in there that reflux doesn’t affect sleep, which we all know to be untrue! (I think the rest of the info in there is valuable, though.)
Ally’smom2006-2-8 10:41:26
February 8, 2006 at 5:58 pm #1181AnonymousInactiveWoh, Tiffany, thanks so much for posting that info about the Contented Little Baby contraversy! I wish more parents were educated to know about these things….and that the docs would stand up to the hype about books like this!
Sulu,
You mentioned that your baby has a lot of MSPI symptoms, please try to change her diet as soon as you can to see if this makes a difference. My son only had one symptom of MSPI: extreme fussiness and nightwakings. I guess that’s two symptoms, but they weren’t obvious ones. I waited until he was 8 months old to check out MSPI because I didn’t want to believe he had it, I was bfing and didn’t want to have to change my own diet. Now, he’s nearly 17 mos old, and I’ve been on the strict elim diet since he was 8 mos old and it has helped us SO MUCH. If I even have baked goods with milk as a major ingrediant, he will be fussy for several days. It’s really obvious now. Just don’t make the mistake I made and wait so long in making a change. It was SO WORTH it to investigate MSPI, I wish I could have spared us the 8 months of pure misery before I finally was miserable enough to try anything. There is an MSPI forum on this site, you can ask any questions there that you might have. If she is MSPI, changing her or your diet (depending on whether you are bfing or not) WILL definitely change your life.
February 13, 2006 at 2:12 pm #1453AnonymousInactiveI am against the controlled crying that Gina Ford talks about. I
have not let Abby CIO, nor will I. Especially since she doesn’t
feel well. I was just wondering if anyone had tried her
nap/bedtime schedules. I have let Abby try to get into her own
schedule and tried to get her on a schedule. I’ve done
both. Now I have to hold her in the afternoon while she naps
because otherwise she won’t sleep. I figure sleep is better than
no sleep for her. My son was the same way. As babies, they
are almost identical. I didn’t know about MSPI when he was a
baby. I blamed his fussiness etc. on his reflux and his feet (he
had severe bi-lateral clubfeet. He went through a lot of
procedures).I have looked into MSPI. Thank you. I recently changed her
formula and med’s. She’s much, much better. She actually
went 3 hours in a row the other night!!!! Wow! But
now she’s trying to get what seems like 6 teeth at once so she’s having
a hard time with it. No teeth yet. But the doctor says he
can see all of them and I can feel them all.I believe that she is MSPI and so does the doctor. Thank you all
who suggested it. I would have never known about it if it wasn’t
for this website. I knew that she had a digestive problem but
didn’t know what. I’m glad I went with my instincts and your
input!February 13, 2006 at 2:23 pm #1454AnonymousInactiveSulu,
Just to add that I’ve found teeting to be HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE!!!! Not to scare you or anything…. We have used Hyland’s teething tablets (can’t live without them, you can get them at the grocery store, health food store, wal-mart, etc.), children’s Motrin Cold (pain reliever and decongestant), and Children’s Benadryl
(antihistime) all at the same time when things are really bad. This combination has helped us a LOT. Also, laura (hellbennt) has lots of great info on teething in her intro.Tiffany (Ally’s mom) has a great nap schedule worked out for her lo, hopefully you can see some of her past posts about that or she will respond again here.
Glad you figured out the MSPI. It’s like magic, isn’t it, to suddenly see them feeling better from removing dairy and soy??
Hang in there!!!
February 13, 2006 at 2:37 pm #1456AnonymousInactiveYes, within 24 hours of changing her diet, she was a different
person. But then she started the painful teething. My son
didn’t get a tooth until 10 months. She is getting them at 6
months. It’s a lot harder to handle. I feel so bad for
her. She screams and puts her arms back (like she’s down slope
skiing). I will check the nap schedule and teething tips in the
past posts. Thanks! I’ll go and get the Hyland’s
today. Is that the one in the round, cylinder type bottle?
White little tablets that you put on the tongue? She’s soooooo
miserable. I feel badly that she started to feel better after the
diet change and now she has to deal with a mouth full of pain.
Her reflux is way worse right now too. Probably due to the
screaming, teething etc.February 13, 2006 at 2:44 pm #1458AnonymousInactiveI’m SO GLAD to hear she’s feeling better from the MSPI mystery that you figured out.
In regards to the hyland’s, yes, they are the little white tablets in the cylinder type bottle. They dissolve on their tongues, almost immediately. Once Lucas was around a year, I began giving him ten at a time, after hearing from another mom on here that the dose of three really wasnt’ enough once the baby was older–and she said she safely gave ten at a time at a year of age. I think when he first teethed, at ten months, I was giving him five or six tablets at once. Just wanted you to know you can give more than the three it says on the bottle. I’m not a medical professional, but found that it had no adverse affects on my son, it seemed to make him feel BETTER to have a few more of them as he was getting bigger. so you could try the three but maybe if it’s not enough, try four or five if you like.
Also, the teething does something with a histime in their systems, that is why the benadryl (an antihistime) can really help. One mom on here rubbed the actual benadryl liquid on her baby’s gums and said that doing that really helped too.
what you are describing sounds EXACTLY like my lo when he’s teething. Up at all hours, bfeeding constantly and in misery. These meds really helped us out. Good luck!!
February 17, 2006 at 1:45 pm #1758AnonymousInactiveAnne – Question about the Hyland’s tablets. It says that it
has lactose in it. With MSPI, would that make her more
fussy to have lactose? I know that Lactose is the sugar in milk
but just wondering. Maybe she’s just closer to getting the two
bottom teeth,
but she way more fussy and throws up a ton the last day. I’ve
been giving her 4 tablets 1-3 times a day the last two days because she
is just screaming in pain (on top of Tylenol and Motrin). Let me
know.
Thanks!
Sulu2006-2-17 14:30:53February 17, 2006 at 4:30 pm #1769AnonymousInactiveI’ve heard from some MSPI moms that the lactose in things does affect their babies. I think the only way to know is to try it and see. Another option might be Boiron’s Camilia, which is a homeopathic teething remedy like the Hyland’s but it’s in water rather that in a pill. We’ve used it with some success; you can get it at a health food store.
Regarding naps, Ally was such a nightmare about naps when she was little. Up to almost 4 months, she’d sleep here and there during the day, and then–pop–she came to a place where she decided that she didn’t need to nap at all. I’m like you, a really committed no crying it out-er, but I knew that she needed to sleep. In the book Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, the author talks about how, when babies are little, they shouldn’t go for more than two hours of being awake without sleeping or they’ll get overtired. So I used that as a guide, and every 2 hours (or earlier, if Ally was acting tired), we’d slow down. Rock in the rocking chair, read Goodnight Moon, swaddle (when she was really little), and then bounce on the exercise ball. She didn’t always sleep, and when she did sleep, she didn’t always sleep long, but I was sure to devote at least 15 mins every two hours to helping her be quiet and restful. I think it helped her learn that it’s okay to be tired and sleepy, and to sleep when she’s tired rather than fighting it.
I did this every two hour thing until Ally was around 6 months old. At that point, I noticed that she didn’t want to slow down every 2 hours, so I started experimenting. Around that point, she started taking 4 naps a day, which was at 2 hours in some cases and closer to 3 at others. I just watched her for any signs of tiredness and took advantage of them. Around 7-8 months, this turned into 3 naps per day, and around 9 months she dropped down to two. She takes them at pretty regular times (around 9:30 and between 2-2:30).
I lay down with her during her naps and nurse her if she wants to help ensure that her naps are a good length. If she naps for less than an hour, I will rock her back to sleep (or at least attempt to), because she’s one of those kids who, if she sleeps less than an hour, is super overtired because she didn’t get enough rest. I’ve found that over time she nurses less during naps and hardly ever sleeps for less than an hour anymore–yesterday she took an almost 3 hour nap with only a minute of nursing in the middle, it was unreal.
I hope this helps and wasn’t too long and boring, please let me know if it doesn’t make sense . . . Take care, and I hope teething gets better soon!
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