what is normal spitting up? update

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone!

I was hoping to post on the -keeping in touch- forums about our adorable baby girl, but now we have some “situation” going on already. Sigh. I really can’t believe this is happening, but here we go. So, I delivered a healthy baby girl on Sept. 12, Eleanor Claire– we’re calling her Norah. She was full-term, and is nursing like a champ. Last week, she had blood in her diaper and our lactation consultant (who is like the guru of nursing) has already taken me off of dairy, soy, gluten and peanuts (I was off all of these except peanuts for many months/years while my first was nursing). I was dairy free for the last month of the pregnancy because it seemed to be making my feet swell, and i had horrible plugged milk ducts until taking out dairy last time– and well, Lucas was miserable when I had dairy, too.

So, after taking out all these foods a few days ago, she has had two nights with different things, one was excessive crying during nursing, very similar to reflux behavior. HAving to burp every few minutes during a feeding. We chalked it up to me having some decaf coffee, a sprite (which i almost never do but did that day) and some beans. Next day she was much better but last night she had a feeding with at least 10 spit ups during the feeding. She has had five of the violent episodes where it comes flying out of their nose AND mouth in the last few days. This morning she had just burped and then projectile vomited up (several inches into the air, like a fountain) and across my lap and had it coming out of her nose as well.

Lucas spit up a lot and isn’t really a normal situation to compare to….but this seems excessive to me?? Are these nose and mouth spit ups normal for normal babies? She is sleeping like a normal newborn, and has had some great stretches of sleep. I worry that she isn’t “fussy” now, but if she keeps spitting like this, she will eventually probably get fussy with all the acid coming up all the time. Help! I just need someone to tell me straight if this is normal or not and what to do. I’m exclusively b-feeding.

[Anonymous]

First off congratulations. I have a friend whose little one is Eleanor Ann and they call her Norah as well. Love it! The thing that bothers me is the spit up out of the nose. Cooper did this and I thought it was “normal”… well my ped said… NOT NORMAL. So based on that alone I would probably start thinking either reflux or pyloric stenosis… If the projectile keeps happening, I would tend to think more pyloric stenosis which of course an Upper GI can diagnosis easily and is corrected with surgery. The not being fussy is what makes me think that over reflux. Good Luck. I am sure others will chime in as well.

[Anonymous]

Wow, thanks for such a quick reply, Beth. What exactly is pyloric stenosis? I don’t know anything about it. I guess I should research this in all my free time….haha. Just curious if you have a short explanation of what it is?

[Anonymous]

Hi Anne,

This is something I copied when I just did a quick search. Luckily it is easily fixed with surgery and usually doesn’t lead to reflux as well. I have a friend whose youngest had it and he is perfectly fine now and almost 3.

What Is Pyloric Stenosis?

Pyloric stenosis is a narrowing of the pylorus, the lower part of the stomach through which food and other stomach contents pass to enter the small intestine. When an infant has pyloric stenosis, the muscles in the pylorus have become enlarged to the point where food is prevented from emptying out of the stomach.

Also called infantile hypertrophic pyloric stenosis or gastric outlet obstruction, pyloric stenosis is fairly common – it affects about three out of 1,000 babies in the United States. Pyloric stenosis is about four times more likely to occur in firstborn male infants. It has also been shown to run in families – if a parent had pyloric stenosis, then an infant has up to a 20% risk of developing the condition. Pyloric stenosis occurs more commonly in Caucasian infants than in babies of other ethnic backgrounds, and affected infants are more likely to have blood type B or O.

Most infants who develop pyloric stenosis are usually between 2 weeks and 2 months of age – symptoms usually appear during or after the third week of life. It is one of the more common causes of intestinal obstruction during infancy that requires surgery.

[hellbennt]

hi Anne!

congratulations!!!!

I love the name Norah (maybe bcse it rhymes w/ laura, LOL!)

I’m not sure what to say….but I DO know there’s a mama here, Erin (Erintx) whose baby had blood in his stool, etc. and she/her baby is the RARE case that I’ve (ever?) seen where she cleared up his GI issues by diet alone…she got home test kits to test the stool herself and went by stools & behavior (& reflux) to see how/what she was eating affected her baby- if you go to the TED forum, you should see her posts…very informative! she even at one point tried pancrease (I actually even got the article and copied some info from it) to help resolve baby’s digestive issues. I will PM her to respond here if she does not soon.

hang in there!

[Anonymous]

Hey- here I am (trying to catch up from yesterday’s posts).

Yes, Evan’s reflux is directly related to his GI issues/intolerances. Once his diapers/blood resolved (took 6wks of strict TED) we were able to stop all reflux meds. I have the info to order hemoccult tests if you’re interested.

Let me know & feel free to PM me… I think you responded on one of my threads (I think the “am I being selfish” one about continuing to bf) early on & I greatly appreciated it!

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much everyone. Well, after a hard night and awful feeds– spitting up 10+ times during a nighttime feeding and more nose and mouth projectile vomits I thought about switching her position for nursing. I was doing the cross cradle position, which, DUH, is probably bad for a baby with reflux tendencies but I started doing the football position, where the baby is sort of sitting up while they nurse and coincidentally there are far fewer spit ups since yesterday. I don’t know if this is just positioning, which seems weird to me, or if it coincided with getting certain foods out of my system. I can’t remember, but I was thinking that if they spit up for whatever reason, taking out foods should just make it so the spit up is less acidic, not that taking out the foods will stop the actual spitting…? Is that correct? Do you know if the whole milk out hte nose is something to worry about? And does projectile spitting mean that we’re up for a reflux baby or could it just be a random thing? Also, I’m concerned that if I can’t get the spitting to stop that it will turn into reflux, with the acid doing damage eventually….does that sound logical? Thanks for any thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Hi Anne–
Congratulations on little norah…
I don’t know if her spitting up means that she will definitely be a ‘reflux baby’. maybe she’ll just be a ‘happy spitter’?
Finn vomited out his nose (crazy, violent vomiting) a couple of times when taking bm through a bottle in the early weeks.
i would think that if she continues to do this it would be a concern, but from talking to a lot of moms, I found that many had experienced it.
I think that the dietary changes could stop the reflux altogether if it is reflux and if it is caused by food intolerances/sensitivities. however, if it is also due to the loose LES, then it would probably just help, but not stop it.
good luck and maybe it won’t be reflux…or if it is, maybe it won’t be a severe case…

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone. Finn’s mom– that was the sort of info i’m looking for. Just wanting to know what normal is and wanting to head off any reflux tendencies that could send things into a tainspin. Learned my lessons the hard way the first time around LOL!

[Anonymous]

Here’s also hoping it’s not reflux:)

For what it’s worth, I will chime in as well– but my experience is limited to my one baby who is a refluxer, so I certainly can’t tell you what’s “normal”!

Max was a spitter from a couple of days old. He definitely would spit up more when I had the foods that he was sensitive too– he had one really bad week (at about two months) where he basically puked on everything in the house, then I promptly cut out wheat, egg, and nuts, which dramatically helped the problem. Although his reflux drastically peaked as of late, in retrospect his reflux always bothered him, even though we didn’t realize what it was at the time. For the most part, he was a “happy spitter,” but sometimes he would fuss for a minute right before or after he spit up. Also, his first few weeks, he hated diaper changes unless we kept him at a slant. Oddly, however, this preference abated, then resurfaced at 4 months. Also strangely, although he used to be a fussy eater, now that his reflux has peaked (I’m hoping it’s at its peak, anyway), he eats totally fine!

Also, sometimes he has it come out of his nose– he absolutely HATES it!

[Anonymous]

Anne…

Congratulations on little Norah! How are you doing and how is Lucas?

Hailey was a big vomitter through the nose. It used to make her hyspertical, apparently it can burn like when pool water goes into your nose. Our ped told us that sometimes forceful vomitting can come out of the nose and mouth together just because of the connection and the fact that it comes up fast and furious. If it’s not bothering her, then it’s probably not a problem.

I think that the fact that she’s vomitting so many times means that she has reflux, but since some reflux is normal in babies, if it’s not bothering her, then it’s fine. Because of Lucas’ history, I’d just keep an eye on the signs. If things seem like they’re starting to cause her discomfort, or if she’s projectile vomitting too much (even if it’s not causing her discomfort) then I’d mention it to the ped. You’ll probably know if you need to go the route of meds.

Hopefully she’ll be a happy spitter, or the spitting will stop soon. Enjoy her and Congrats again! Great to hear from you!!!

[Anonymous]

for awhile my daughter would vomit out of her mouth & nose.. i told her pediatrican she said that “its normal because your nose and your mouth are connected” … but if you ask me, i dont think it’s normal to be puking out of your nose….. hence why we are in the middle of finding a new pedi. hah

[Anonymous]

Hi guys. we had a few decent days, with hard feedings every once in a while nad hte last two days have been very rough. I’m reading about Overactive LEtdown and Pyloric Stenosis and they are both sounding like possibiilities? Pyloric stenosis sounds really scary, but treatable. I’m calling the ped tomorrow nad seeing the lac consultant tomorrow. I feel so frustrated and every time she vomits out her nose and mouth or has projectile vomit it just tears me up. You would think I might be immune to feeling badly for a baby that spits up, after watching Lucas do it for soooo long, but I think our history has made it much harder for me to deal with. I feel a bit like I have some smidgen of post traumatic stress disorder associated with spitting up and reflux. It’s like I have such bad memories of how it affected us in so many ways that when i see it happening again it’s hard to keep logical and think– okay, this isn’t the same thing. I guess the birthing hormones and not sleeping don’t help the whole situation, but I just feel bad about the whole thing. We’re probably having 25 spit ups a day at least and sometimes within one feeding nearly ten and in the last 24 hours had 3-4 separate feedings with projectile vomit, out hte nose and mouth, and multiple spit ups associated with each feeding, by multiple I’m guessing nearly 10 for each. Going through lots of burp cloths and having a lot of crying from Norah during these feedings. Then bizarrely– this morning she had a fairly calm feeding with little spit up. Any ideas? My dh, bless him, is already asking me if I want to try formula and I nearly bit his head off. He keeps saying there’s something in my milk. Any ideas for what to tell a dh who wants to help but has no clue? I’m trying to hang on here, and feeling good that at least she seems to be gaining weight, we’re doing a weight check tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

b’s mom2008-10-08 21:54:50

[Anonymous]

Anne,

I am no expert on this, but blood in the stool I would definitely say was food sensitivity related. But I don’t think that projectile vomiting necessarily is. I think that from what I have read the projectile is more likely to be the pyloric stenosis or OAL. If he is trying to help but has no clue I would tell him just to be supportive and zip it lol. I really wouldn’t say it that way (although that is what I did say to my DH..we had blood in the stool with McKenzie too. ) But really the best thing he can do is be supportive.. 🙂 Guys just don’t understand how emotional breastfeeding is for women, they just see a problem and see formula as the way to solve it. Keep us updated.

[Author]

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